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Thread: Is swapping out cams a really bad way to get extra power?

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Is swapping out cams a really bad way to get extra power?

    I mean in a sense of HP gained per dollar spent?
    I am thinking of changing the cams in my Mustang and I am wondering if it is worth it for anything other than cool noise at idle or while slowly rolling through the neighborhood.
    I think I am going to do a full exhaust too eventually. I want to stay legal so I have to research my options.

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    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    legal

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    Suffering ends when craving ends... Hyperion's Avatar

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    Is it a DOHC Mustang?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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    Registered Member speed_demon24's Avatar

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    TERRIBLE

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
    Is it a DOHC Mustang?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Yes, 2013 GT with the Coyote 5.0

    I am thinking of going with the Boss 302 intake, cams, headers, ...etc

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by speed_demon24 View Post
    TERRIBLE
    Explain

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    Registered Member runningmole's Avatar

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    Factory headers aren't terrible

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    Suffering ends when craving ends... Hyperion's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    Yes, 2013 GT with the Coyote 5.0

    I am thinking of going with the Boss 302 intake, cams, headers, ...etc
    I've heard doing cama is really expensive and not much gain on those cars.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    I am not going to drop that amount of coin on anything other than my '68. With the GT, I will probably just do the boss intake, headers/exhaust, tune, and a short throw shifter.

    Serious money goes to green monster

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    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    I mean in a sense of HP gained per dollar spent?
    I am thinking of changing the cams in my Mustang and I am wondering if it is worth it for anything other than cool noise at idle or while slowly rolling through the neighborhood.
    I think I am going to do a full exhaust too eventually. I want to stay legal so I have to research my options.
    per dollar, no they suck. As a whole, they are one of the best mods you can do next to heads. DOHC love cam + gears but I'd rather slap a blower and reduce the boost.
    Last edited by mogs01gt; 05-16-2019 at 07:04 AM.

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    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    Procharger. Goodbye

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    per dollar, no they suck. As a whole, they are one of the best mods you can do next to heads. DOHC love cam + gears but I'd rather slap a blower and reduce the boost.
    I already run 3.73s in the rear, is it going to be that big of a difference to step up to 4.10s?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Griswold View Post
    Procharger. Goodbye
    Would love to but that is too much. That kind of money would put air conditioning and other things in the 68.

    Speaking of the 68, I think I am going to go with 4th gen seats and a 5th gen console boyo. It looks awesome.

    Last edited by windham; 05-16-2019 at 07:22 AM.

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    It'll get ya fat KrispyCharger's Avatar

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    if you have an engine that has a chicken shit low RPM cam & valve-train...but a 5.0 really isn't that at all

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    the horror . . . the horror EVILFACE's Avatar

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    Dumped flows and call it a day.

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    No ragrets Tristan's Avatar

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    3/4 race cams or GTFO

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    3/4 race cams or GTFO
    I want to get into circle track racing so I was told I want the 3/4 race cams on the right side, but 1/2 race cams on the left to keep everything balanced while turning.

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    Patronist esandes's Avatar

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    I used Sean Hyland cams and the change was amazing. It would really wake up after 4000 RPM to redline. It was wild. At idle the car shook a bit and sounded just sick.

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    Patronist esandes's Avatar

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    I also had 3.73 which was still good for highway driving. 4.10 is good if you want to improve 0-60 or 1/4 mile.

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    underdog 4 lyfe ill deuce's Avatar

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    don't fuck around with the boss, just get the cobra jet.

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    Into the abyss EABiker's Avatar

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    Discuss

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    Please go jeffrey Dr WeatherBoner's Avatar

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    Lol at changing 4 cams out on a new car. Plz go

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    RIP GoT Gearhead SS's Avatar

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    Just leave it alone and put the money into your '68. Seriously.

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    Registered Member NHRATA01's Avatar

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    Wouldn't do it on a DOHC "small" displacement motor. The Coyote already breathes really well. Even the old 4.6 DOHCs from memory cams were ridiculously expensive comparatively, and only gained like 20whp on the mod motors from what I recall.

    Would do it on an LS in a heartbeat of course.

    Any cam is pretty much only going to shift the powerband up with the added flow. So it's just going to make a (again comparatively) soft motor off idle even more soft. If you want cam lope, I thought there was that ghost tune the 5.0 guys did to simulate it by adjusting the VVT setpoints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esandes View Post
    I also had 3.73 which was still good for highway driving. 4.10 is good if you want to improve 0-60 or 1/4 mile.
    Changed my gears 3 times when I had my old Cobra. Went to 3:73, then 4:10, and finally 4:30's. The 4:30's were AWESOME with that motor and as long as you didn't need to drive on the freeway all the time they worked just fine with occasional use. Now that was on a 4.6 with like 300tq from the factory. After it went SC it went back to 3:73's. With over 100tq more in the coyotes the max I'd do is 4:10, and still bet it would be a bitch to keep traction.

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    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead SS View Post
    Just leave it alone and put the money into your '68. Seriously.

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    underdog 4 lyfe ill deuce's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSnake View Post
    Changed my gears 3 times when I had my old Cobra. Went to 3:73, then 4:10, and finally 4:30's. The 4:30's were AWESOME with that motor and as long as you didn't need to drive on the freeway all the time they worked just fine with occasional use. Now that was on a 4.6 with like 300tq from the factory. After it went SC it went back to 3:73's. With over 100tq more in the coyotes the max I'd do is 4:10, and still bet it would be a bitch to keep traction.
    newer mustangs have a lot more gear in the transmission that they used to, the 6r80 has even more.

    the fastest bolt on first gen coyotes are autos with 28in tires and 3.31s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ill deuce View Post
    newer mustangs have a lot more gear in the transmission that they used to, the 6r80 has even more.

    the fastest bolt on first gen coyotes are autos with 28in tires and 3.31s.
    Good point,even if they were the same, with the extra tq in the 5.0 I'd roll 3:73's max for a daily.

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    something clever here Chris R's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    I already run 3.73s in the rear, is it going to be that big of a difference to step up to 4.10s?

    Would love to but that is too much. That kind of money would put air conditioning and other things in the 68.

    Speaking of the 68, I think I am going to go with 4th gen seats and a 5th gen console boyo. It looks awesome.

    that gap on the bottom of the console does not look awesome

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    :flirt: SwollHottie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    I mean in a sense of HP gained per dollar spent?
    I am thinking of changing the cams in my Mustang and I am wondering if it is worth it for anything other than cool noise at idle or while slowly rolling through the neighborhood.
    I think I am going to do a full exhaust too eventually. I want to stay legal so I have to research my options.
    Coyote mustang = boss intake swap is best single mod you can do (that isn't a power adder), iirc

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwollHottie View Post
    Coyote mustang = boss intake swap is best single mod you can do (that isn't a power adder), iirc
    Yeah I am doing the boss intake, exhaust, and tuning for sure.

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    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    Update on trading it for an F150?

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    I look reasonable, but I'm not. No F-bdy Bs's Avatar

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    Ls-Something? Without a doubt.
    Coyote? I can think of a half dozen mods I'd do before cams. Hell, I'd boost it wayyy before doing cams.

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    Registered Member speed_demon24's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    Yeah I am doing the boss intake, exhaust, and tuning for sure.
    How often are you running it out to redline? The boss loses low and mid range torque. And the stock clutches aren’t known for liking 7500 rpm shifts.

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    Registered Member AlmostFamous's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwollHottie View Post
    Coyote mustang = boss intake swap is best single mod you can do (that isn't a power adder), iirc
    This was true in 2013. In 2019, the 2018-19 GT intake crushes the boss intake at every point in the powerband while costing half as less.

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Griswold View Post
    Update on trading it for an F150?
    Knowing me? I might toss 2 grand in moss at it and drive it to the dealer and trade it.

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by speed_demon24 View Post
    How often are you running it out to redline? The boss loses low and mid range torque. And the stock clutches arenít known for liking 7500 rpm shifts.
    It doesn't see 7500rpm shifts that often.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostFamous View Post
    This was true in 2013. In 2019, the 2018-19 GT intake crushes the boss intake at every point in the powerband while costing half as less.
    You serious Clark? I was going by word of mouth but if the stock intake used on the current 5.0s are better and cheaper that is a win.

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    I'd just roll with this if it's not a 2018 Mustang
    2800 bucks
    https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9452-M8
    M-9452-M8 - Power Pack 3
    Includes GT350 cold air intake with 87mm throttle body and GT350 intake manifold M-9424-M52
    37 horsepower and 5 lb-ft peak gains over stock
    60 horsepower gain at 7500rpm
    Industry's only 50-state legal calibration with performance intake manifold


    EDIT:
    NM, I didn't see that it was a 2013, the GT350 intake won't work on it, and the calibration tool won't work
    Last edited by AzSnake; 05-17-2019 at 09:24 AM.

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    Registered Member AlmostFamous's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    It doesn't see 7500rpm shifts that often.

    You serious Clark? I was going by word of mouth but if the stock intake used on the current 5.0s are better and cheaper that is a win.
    The boss intake will take your peak numbers at 6,500rpms and instead of a big drop off, keeps the curve flat until 7,700rms, adding about 10 peak horsepower while sacrificing some some low and mid range power.

    With the 2018-19 GT intake, you sacrifice no low and mid range power, while increasing the curve to 7,500rpms, and adding about 30 peak horsepower.
    Last edited by AlmostFamous; 05-17-2019 at 09:36 AM.

  40. #40
    Registered Member AlmostFamous's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSnake View Post
    I'd just roll with this if it's not a 2018 Mustang
    2800 bucks
    https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9452-M8
    M-9452-M8 - Power Pack 3
    Includes GT350 cold air intake with 87mm throttle body and GT350 intake manifold M-9424-M52
    37 horsepower and 5 lb-ft peak gains over stock
    60 horsepower gain at 7500rpm
    Industry's only 50-state legal calibration with performance intake manifold


    EDIT:
    NM, I didn't see that it was a 2013, the GT350 intake won't work on it, and the calibration tool won't work
    Even with the gen 2 Coyote, why spend thousands on the GT350 intake when the 2018-19 GT intake puts up identical numbers. It’s the reason you don’t really see any GT350 intake swaps anymore.

    The only viable intakes on the market for the Coyote are the 2018-19 GT manifold and the Cobra Jet manifold. The Cobra Jet is the top performer but it’s expensive and it doesn’t fit in the engine bay of the 2015-2017 without modification.
    Last edited by AlmostFamous; 05-17-2019 at 09:45 AM.

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    Registered Member runningmole's Avatar

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    Just get a tune. Throttle response from tip-in alone will make driving it more fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostFamous View Post
    Even with the gen 2 Coyote, why spend thousands on the GT350 intake when the 2018-19 GT intake puts up identical numbers. It’s the reason you don’t really see any GT350 intake swaps anymore.

    The only viable intakes on the market for the Coyote are the 2018-19 GT manifold and the Cobra Jet manifold. The Cobra Jet is the top performer but it’s expensive and it doesn’t fit in the engine bay of the 2015-2017 without modification.
    I was just thinking emissions, but the 350 intake isn't even viable on the 2013's so your right the Boss or the CJ.
    LMR has a CJ intake, GT500 60mm TB, and a JLT CAI, and mil eliminators for $1450
    Seems like a decent deal.
    https://lmr.com/item/M9424M50CJTB/mu...iABEgJKxfD_BwE

    From what I'm reading guys are picking up about 18rwhp on ported CJ intakes and intake cams on 93, with an additional 18-20 on E85
    Even with the cost of intake cams in the CJ (porting isn't hard or expensive) a potential 40 RWHP seems like a good roi.

    Seen a few charts with around 475 rwhp with the CJ intake, intake cams and full exhaust, on E85/tune.
    Last edited by AzSnake; 05-17-2019 at 07:12 PM.

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    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    Ghost cam tune

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    Slowest SS in Dee F Dubya JUSTINASS's Avatar

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    put your money in to camaro build...

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    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JUSTINASS View Post
    put your money in to camaro build...
    It's getting a 90/10 split. 90% of the fun budget will go to the 68, but I want to have fun in my daily too. So simple stuff that is relatively inexpensive like exhaust, headers, a bama tune ...etc. I can do one mod here and there and still spend on the 68's restoration.

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    :flirt: SwollHottie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostFamous View Post
    This was true in 2013. In 2019, the 2018-19 GT intake crushes the boss intake at every point in the powerband while costing half as less.
    Well, conveniently, lil Kim has a 2013 coyote mustang.

  47. #47

  48. #48
    "What up 2-1-2" Locker537's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
    that gap on the bottom of the console does not look awesome
    Opinions are like bumholes, but 4th and 5th gen interior in a 1st gen looks terrible.

  49. #49
    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    restomod 1st gen camaro > 2013 mustang

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    Coastal Elite Crew Rich_S's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    I mean in a sense of HP gained per dollar spent?
    I am thinking of changing the cams in my Mustang and I am wondering if it is worth it for anything other than cool noise at idle or while slowly rolling through the neighborhood.
    I think I am going to do a full exhaust too eventually. I want to stay legal so I have to research my options.

    Depends on the vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    Yes, 2013 GT with the Coyote 5.0

    I am thinking of going with the Boss 302 intake, cams, headers, ...etc
    On the Coyotes - CAI, tune, and midpipe are BY FAR the best bang for your buck. Next up would be an intake manifold (I'd go with Cobra Jet over Boss 302 if you're doing a swap) and long tube headers. If you've done all of that already, only then cams would be the next logical choice. And honestly, for 30 or so extra hp I don't think it's worth spending the $1500 on parts and more on labor, and it will also impact driveability more than all the other stuff combined.

  51. #51
    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    Depends on the vehicle.



    On the Coyotes - CAI, tune, and midpipe are BY FAR the best bang for your buck. Next up would be an intake manifold (I'd go with Cobra Jet over Boss 302 if you're doing a swap) and long tube headers. If you've done all of that already, only then cams would be the next logical choice. And honestly, for 30 or so extra hp I don't think it's worth spending the $1500 on parts and more on labor, and it will also impact driveability more than all the other stuff combined.
    Yeah everything I am reading is supporting what you are saying. So I will probably do a bama tune, CAI, and exhaust and then just call it done.

  52. #52
    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Griswold View Post
    restomod 1st gen camaro > 2013 mustang
    agree, but I want to enjoy both

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    underdog 4 lyfe ill deuce's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by windham View Post
    Yeah everything I am reading is supporting what you are saying. So I will probably do a bama tune, CAI, and exhaust and then just call it done.
    don't get a bama tune. i'd go with mpt or lund.

  54. #54
    Team Hobbit windham's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ill deuce View Post
    don't get a bama tune. i'd go with mpt or lund.
    What makes mpt or lund better?
    Last edited by windham; Yesterday at 06:08 AM.

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    Registered Member AlmostFamous's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSnake View Post
    I was just thinking emissions, but the 350 intake isn't even viable on the 2013's so your right the Boss or the CJ.
    You are correct. With the gen 2 Coyote (2015-2017 Mustang GTs), the GT350 intake has fallen out of favor. The Power Pack 3 was very popular during 2015-2017 as you could use the GT350 intake along with a canned tune and keep your warranty. It also included the GT350 TB and CAI in the package. Once 2018 rolled in with the introduction of the revised 2018 GT intake, the GT350 wasn’t cost effective against it and the need to keep your factory warranty diminished over time.
    Last edited by AlmostFamous; Yesterday at 02:50 AM.

  56. #56
    Registered Member AlmostFamous's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    Depends on the vehicle.



    On the Coyotes - CAI, tune, and midpipe are BY FAR the best bang for your buck. Next up would be an intake manifold (I'd go with Cobra Jet over Boss 302 if you're doing a swap) and long tube headers. If you've done all of that already, only then cams would be the next logical choice. And honestly, for 30 or so extra hp I don't think it's worth spending the $1500 on parts and more on labor, and it will also impact driveability more than all the other stuff combined.
    I disagree. You’re not gaining much with the CAI. You also don’t gain alot with LTs. Most of the gains from the off-road LTs are coming from the elimination of the restrictive cats and not the LTs. Not saying there’s no gains with LTs, it just nothing to write home about.

    By far the best bang for the buck mods are the 2018-19 GT intake ($250-$350 on eBay), 47lb fuel injectors so you can run E85, and a E85 tune. Just that will net you 50 peak horsepower to the wheels along with a way more improved mid range. This is depended on E85 being available in your area. Removing your cats are good for 15 horsepower. If money isn’t a concern, the Cobra Jet is the best intake on the market.

    I don’t see the point in swapping cams. It’s just not cost effective unless you’re going FI or doing an all-out N/A setup.

  57. #57
    Registered Member AlmostFamous's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ill deuce View Post
    don't get a bama tune. i'd go with mpt or lund.
    Bama is probably the worse tune on the market. There’s lots of people who loss power after getting a bama tune. Lund and AED are the most popular with email tunes.

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