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Thread: 2017 Charger Scat Pack

  1. #1201
    DANSBIRD's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70Chevelle View Post
    Quick google search says they flow 340/210cfm range

    so ~10more cfm on the intake a ~5 more on the exhaust than a LS3 head, such crazy, so wow, many numbers, much insane!
    Compared to a Ford SHO, that's just wild.

  2. #1202
    IG: eightyfivesquared 70Chevelle's Avatar

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    Only expecting 60rwhp with just a cam swap? HA! Shoulda cummins swapped it and added an 8 track while jamming Billy squier!

  3. #1203
    :flirt: SwollHottie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70Chevelle View Post
    Quick google search says they flow 340/210cfm range

    so ~10more cfm on the intake a ~5 more on the exhaust than a LS3 head, such crazy, so wow, many numbers, much insane!
    I said ls1, and referred to ls1 gains from cams.

  4. #1204
    DANSBIRD's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwollHottie View Post
    I said ls1, and referred to ls1 gains from cams.
    an LS1 only has 1 cam.

  5. #1205
    IG: eightyfivesquared 70Chevelle's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwollHottie View Post
    I said ls1, and referred to ls1 gains from cams.
    Im still waiting for you to post a LS1 that gained 100rwhp from just a cam

  6. #1206
    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    :flirt: SwollHottie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70Chevelle View Post
    Im still waiting for you to post a LS1 that gained 100rwhp from just a cam
    Sure.

    https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...e-413rwhp.html

    Literally the first Google result.

  8. #1208
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwollHottie View Post
    Sure.
    https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...e-413rwhp.html
    Literally the first Google result.
    LS6 intake make a bit of a difference when comparing LS1s.
    Last edited by mogs01gt; 10-11-2018 at 01:05 AM.

  9. #1209
    DANSBIRD's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    LS6 intake make a bit of a difference when comparing LS1s.
    LS6 intakes came stock on 01 and 02 LS1s

  10. #1210
    DANSBIRD's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwollHottie View Post
    Sure.

    https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...e-413rwhp.html

    Literally the first Google result.
    Even the OP admits that it may not have hit 100 hp gain:

    I never had it on a dyno stock so I can't honestly say that. But knowing the 12 bolt robs some hp and that stock LS1s typically dyno 300-315rwhp, i would assume it gained close to 100 rwhp

  11. #1211
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by DANSBIRD View Post
    LS6 intakes came stock on 01 and 02 LS1s
    I know, which is my point.

  12. #1212
    DANSBIRD's Avatar

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    It also had LTs, etc... When 70Chevelle said "Show me where an LS1 gained 100hp from a cam alone", I'm assuming he meant from prior to the cam install to after the cam install. Since we don't know what it made prior to the cam, you can't say the car gained 100hp completely from the cam alone.

    BTW... this isn't talking about supporting mods. I understand if you install a cam, it's expected to be a bolt-on car. But that's not what 70 was referring to. 100hp from the cam install. Not the cam +
    Last edited by DANSBIRD; 10-11-2018 at 01:18 AM.

  13. #1213
    IG: eightyfivesquared 70Chevelle's Avatar

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    SLP Lid
    -Pacesetter LT
    -Offroad Y Pipe (no cats)

    That car was putting down more than 313 before the cam

  14. #1214
    What the cluck? GldRush98's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70Chevelle View Post
    SLP Lid
    -Pacesetter LT
    -Offroad Y Pipe (no cats)

    That car was putting down more than 313 before the cam
    I would say easily in the 320's rwhp if he had a lid, LT's and ORY.

    Source: My car has a lid, LT's an ORY and a custom tune and is in the 320's at the wheels.

  15. #1215
    Registered Member Evil87GN's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwollHottie View Post
    They make 430rwhp stock, and the heads have absurd flow numbers. Those modded numbers seem way less than I'd expect to gain. What's the bottleneck? The intake suck?
    My car made 426/424 with a drop in filter, so I may actually be underestimating what it should make with the new build. Better to guess low and be happy when it goes higher than disappointed when it underwhelms...lol.

    That 470-490 is running through the stock exhaust, plus dropping the compression from 10.9 to 10 isn't going to help matters. I have a set of high flow cats, 1 7/8 long tubes for the car, but want to get the break in and initial tuning done on the factory exhaust....makes the initial tuning far simpler. Stock bottom end cars with cam + LTs have made in the 510-530 range, with torque in the 460-480 range. Highest I've seen so far was 533/508 on a 6MT Scat Pack. The big bottleneck on these cars is the intake manifold. Sadly, the Edelbrock Victor 2 is a failboat for the Gen3 Hemi. Only other choice is going with an earlier 6.1 intake, but those are about the same $$ as the Edelbrock. Intake + fuel rails is easily 800-1K new, and 500-700 used.

    I'm going to port the stock intake to get rid of any flash + smooth the runner transitions. I'm also going to throw an 87mm throttle body on it for better breathing. Big thing here is it will be capable of holding whatever I want to throw at it, be it boost or spray. Same type of builds + boost have made easy 800+ rwhp, with some more serious ones making it into the 1100+ range.

    Best part about all this is I will be able to troll the crap out of people. Everybody expects a Hellcat to be fast, but around here, nobody has done much to a 392. I think there's maybe a half dozen that are blown or spraying, but that's about it. I know of one SRT392 in the area that made 1168 rwhp, but it hasn't been out of the guy's garage in a long time...scared the piss out of him a few times, so he parked it. Otherwise, it's mainly 5.7 cars with bolt ons + bottle.
    Last edited by Evil87GN; 10-11-2018 at 02:20 PM.

  16. #1216
    underdog 4 lyfe ill deuce's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70Chevelle View Post
    Only expecting 60rwhp with just a cam swap? HA! Shoulda cummins swapped it and added an 8 track while jamming Billy squier!
    you keep billy squier out your goddamn mouth!

  17. #1217
    DANSBIRD's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ill deuce View Post
    you keep billy squier out your goddamn mouth!
    I, too, did not appreciate that.

  18. #1218
    underdog 4 lyfe ill deuce's Avatar

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  19. #1219
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil87GN View Post
    My car made 426/424 with a drop in filter, so I may actually be underestimating what it should make with the new build. Better to guess low and be happy when it goes higher than disappointed when it underwhelms...lol.

    That 470-490 is running through the stock exhaust, plus dropping the compression from 10.9 to 10 isn't going to help matters. I have a set of high flow cats, 1 7/8 long tubes for the car, but want to get the break in and initial tuning done on the factory exhaust....makes the initial tuning far simpler. Stock bottom end cars with cam + LTs have made in the 510-530 range, with torque in the 460-480 range. Highest I've seen so far was 533/508 on a 6MT Scat Pack. The big bottleneck on these cars is the intake manifold. Sadly, the Edelbrock Victor 2 is a failboat for the Gen3 Hemi. Only other choice is going with an earlier 6.1 intake, but those are about the same $$ as the Edelbrock. Intake + fuel rails is easily 800-1K new, and 500-700 used.

    I'm going to port the stock intake to get rid of any flash + smooth the runner transitions. I'm also going to throw an 87mm throttle body on it for better breathing. Big thing here is it will be capable of holding whatever I want to throw at it, be it boost or spray. Same type of builds + boost have made easy 800+ rwhp, with some more serious ones making it into the 1100+ range.

    Best part about all this is I will be able to troll the crap out of people. Everybody expects a Hellcat to be fast, but around here, nobody has done much to a 392. I think there's maybe a half dozen that are blown or spraying, but that's about it. I know of one SRT392 in the area that made 1168 rwhp, but it hasn't been out of the guy's garage in a long time...scared the piss out of him a few times, so he parked it. Otherwise, it's mainly 5.7 cars with bolt ons + bottle.
    There is a local guy with like a 2012'ish challenger running 10s all motor. Ported heads with I think a stroker kit. Strong car.

  20. #1220
    Registered Member Evil87GN's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    There is a local guy with like a 2012'ish challenger running 10s all motor. Ported heads with I think a stroker kit. Strong car.
    One of our regulars in the 392 N/A group has run 10.8 @ 124 with his '16 Challenger Scat Pack A8, all motor as well. CNC ported heads, cam, ported stock intake, 95mm Hellcat t/b, LTs w/offroad mids, and drag wheel setup. Still a stock bottom end car, which is a surprise, but he's VERY diligent on data logging/running good fuel. He's been revamping his setup for fall weather...alum d/s, better suspension, lighter weight seats, etc. So far, he's run 11.19 @ 122 in 2600DA, so when the cooler air hits, he will be deep in the 10's. His cam specs are pretty close to mine, so I'm hoping she will make decent power/run good numbers when all done. If I get mid/low 11's out of her at full weight, I will be thrilled.

    This is on his old setup.....car moves the hell out for sure.

  21. #1221
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil87GN View Post
    One of our regulars in the 392 N/A group has run 10.8 @ 124 with his '16 Challenger Scat Pack A8, all motor as well. CNC ported heads, cam, ported stock intake, 95mm Hellcat t/b, LTs w/offroad mids, and drag wheel setup. Still a stock bottom end car, which is a surprise, but he's VERY diligent on data logging/running good fuel. He's been revamping his setup for fall weather...alum d/s, better suspension, lighter weight seats, etc. So far, he's run 11.19 @ 122 in 2600DA, so when the cooler air hits, he will be deep in the 10's. His cam specs are pretty close to mine, so I'm hoping she will make decent power/run good numbers when all done. If I get mid/low 11's out of her at full weight, I will be thrilled.

    This is on his old setup.....car moves the hell out for sure.
    They run well for being so heavy. Im 90% sure this guy has aftermarket heads with a lot of work done to them.
    Last edited by mogs01gt; 10-12-2018 at 06:21 PM.

  22. #1222
    IG: eightyfivesquared 70Chevelle's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil87GN View Post
    One of our regulars in the 392 N/A group has run 10.8 @ 124 with his '16 Challenger Scat Pack A8, all motor as well. CNC ported heads, cam, ported stock intake, 95mm Hellcat t/b, LTs w/offroad mids, and drag wheel setup. Still a stock bottom end car, which is a surprise, but he's VERY diligent on data logging/running good fuel. He's been revamping his setup for fall weather...alum d/s, better suspension, lighter weight seats, etc. So far, he's run 11.19 @ 122 in 2600DA, so when the cooler air hits, he will be deep in the 10's. His cam specs are pretty close to mine, so I'm hoping she will make decent power/run good numbers when all done. If I get mid/low 11's out of her at full weight, I will be thrilled.

    This is on his old setup.....car moves the hell out for sure.
    CNC ported heads? Those should flow INSANELY

    He should be running high 8's


    /berman

  23. #1223
    What Would Oddjob Do? 5.0THIS's Avatar

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    sell scatpack, buy hellcat. Run those times with a warranty and no high-strung cammed NA 392. Seems like it’d be worth any additional money.

  24. #1224
    It'll get ya fat KrispyCharger's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    sell scatpack, buy hellcat. Run those times with a warranty and no high-strung cammed NA 392. Seems like it’d be worth any additional money.
    Better resale is another factor you get with the HC

  25. #1225
    Registered Member speed_demon24's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by KrispyCharger View Post
    Better resale is another factor you get with the HC
    Yep. It would be cheaper to own the hellcat.

  26. #1226
    It'll get ya fat KrispyCharger's Avatar

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    but with the built NA motor you don't have to worry about overheating nearly as much if you ever do road racing, the hellcat (or any supercharged modern car) low temp circuit will saturate out & limit power after like 6-7 laps on any major course...not that I think many people are doing that

  27. #1227
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    sell scatpack, buy hellcat. Run those times with a warranty and no high-strung cammed NA 392. Seems like it’d be worth any additional money.
    HC are way more expensive new and just scary to buy used.

  28. #1228
    In The Upside Down Gearhead SS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    HC are way more expensive new and just scary to buy used.
    Why would they be scary? There are a shit ton of low mileage ones out there.

  29. #1229
    It'll get ya fat KrispyCharger's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    HC are way more expensive new and just scary to buy used.
    as long as they weren't modded they are fine

  30. #1230
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead SS View Post
    Why would they be scary? There are a shit ton of low mileage ones out there.
    The HC's for sale are normally leased cars or repos and are beat the shit.

  31. #1231
    Registered Member Doss's Avatar

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    someone is going to get a creampuff when my lease goes back.

    When I had it serviced they couldn't believe the mileage. The F&I lady came out and said they may give me a call for an early buy back

  32. #1232
    In The Upside Down Gearhead SS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    The HC's for sale are normally leased cars or repos and are beat the shit.
    I highly doubt the 3k-6k mile 3-4 year old Hellcats I see are all beat to shit repos.

  33. #1233
    426HEMI's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by KrispyCharger View Post
    but with the built NA motor you don't have to worry about overheating nearly as much if you ever do road racing, the hellcat (or any supercharged modern car) low temp circuit will saturate out & limit power after like 6-7 laps on any major course...not that I think many people are doing that
    HC on a road course.

    I think I'll take my Jeep out water skiing too.

  34. #1234
    In The Upside Down Gearhead SS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 426HEMI View Post
    HC on a road course.

    I think I'll take my Jeep out water skiing too.

  35. #1235
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead SS View Post
    I highly doubt the 3k-6k mile 3-4 year old Hellcats I see are all beat to shit repos.
    I havent seen one for sale with that low of mileage in my area.

    Did they raise the price on the 2018-2019 HC's? I though they were like 60-65k new but autotrader listings have them at $70k+.
    Last edited by mogs01gt; 10-15-2018 at 09:10 PM.

  36. #1236
    It'll get ya fat KrispyCharger's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 426HEMI View Post
    HC on a road course.

    I think I'll take my Jeep out water skiing too.
    Its something the SRT guys are designing for, back in like 2012ish they called me and another guy in to consult about throttles they could use for the supercharger bypass. In talking about supercharger coolant circuit capacity they had a goal of going 1 more lap at like Road America than the CTSV before derating. It made me laugh that such a criteria was even a thing.

  37. #1237
    In The Upside Down Gearhead SS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    I havent seen one for sale with that low of mileage in my area.

    Did they raise the price on the 2018-2019 HC's? I though they were like 60-65k new but autotrader listings have them at $70k+.
    2018s start at just over $67k with the gas guzzler tax.

  38. #1238
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearhead SS View Post
    2018s start at just over $67k with the gas guzzler tax.
    That changes things a bit since they were mid 60k a few yeas ago. No wonder the used ones jumped up in price.
    Last edited by mogs01gt; 10-16-2018 at 12:29 AM.

  39. #1239
    Registered Member Evil87GN's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    sell scatpack, buy hellcat. Run those times with a warranty and no high-strung cammed NA 392. Seems like it’d be worth any additional money.
    TBH, I've thought about selling the car when it's running/tuned and get a used HC, or perhaps lease a new one. Once I start adding up the $$ to put a S/C on the car, it makes waayyyy more sense to go for a Hellcat or CTS-V. There's a 12K mile 2015 Challenger Hellcat at one of the local dealers, and it has the options I would want. White exterior, black/red interior, Harmon Kardon system, Nav, and A8 trans. Sales manager wants it gone..listed at 53K, but willing to come off the price to make the car sell.

    With the cam I have, it's not going to be high strung at all. It will have a healthy chop at idle, but it's designed for a daily driver type car, not a max effort NA build. Tuners actually like the MMX profile cams vs off the shelf Comp grinds due to much easier to tune. No funky idle or transition characteristics to deal with. Dave Weber has put a lot of thought into his cam profiles, and they work very well.
    Last edited by Evil87GN; 10-16-2018 at 06:59 AM.

  40. #1240
    What Would Oddjob Do? 5.0THIS's Avatar

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    I’m guessing it still wouldn’t have the streetability of a hellcat though. An NA car of similar power will always be more high strung

  41. #1241
    Registered Member Evil87GN's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    I’m guessing it still wouldn’t have the streetability of a hellcat though. An NA car of similar power will always be more high strung
    Scary thing is they have stroker kits for the 392 block that should make pretty good power. Dave is guessing 600+ rwhp on pump gas NA...can't imagine one on spray or boost though. MMX isn't resting on their laurels, and keeps coming up with new stuff for the Gen3 Hemi. If I would have known about the stroker kits before I started the rebuild, ol Scat might have a 454 going under the hood. I know there are a couple of 454's in the build process, so it will be interesting to see how much power they make.

    Yeah, once you start getting past 650-700 NA, it can start losing some of the nice street manners. That's where the factory forced induction cars shine....all the power, none of the ill manners. The new Coyote is also proving to be a beast under boost, but completely mundane/daily driver capable when just cruising around. Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind as well, especially after test driving a 2018 GT Performance Pack with the A10.....they are damned quick in stock trim, and boost would make it crazy...lol.
    Last edited by Evil87GN; 10-16-2018 at 09:21 AM.

  42. #1242
    What Would Oddjob Do? 5.0THIS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil87GN View Post
    The new Coyote is also proving to be a beast under boost, but completely mundane/daily driver capable when just cruising around. Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind as well, especially after test driving a 2018 GT Performance Pack with the A10.....they are damned quick in stock trim, and boost would make it crazy...lol.
    I've recently noticed how beastly the new F150 is too with the 5.0/A10. bolt on blower, headers and fuel system=10s in a 4wd regular cab truck

  43. #1243
    Registered Member Evil87GN's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    I've recently noticed how beastly the new F150 is too with the 5.0/A10. bolt on blower, headers and fuel system=10s in a 4wd regular cab truck
    Yep, the 5.0/A10 combo is potent no matter what platform it's in. Bolt on a blower/turbo and a few supporting mods, then embarrass a large percentage of muscle/sports cars while hauling a few bags of mulch for the flower bed..lol.

  44. #1244
    426HEMI's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    I've recently noticed how beastly the new F150 is too with the 5.0/A10. bolt on blower, headers and fuel system=10s in a 4wd regular cab truck
    Jeebus. Thats actually temping for the next car .

  45. #1245
    :flirt: SwollHottie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    I've recently noticed how beastly the new F150 is too with the 5.0/A10. bolt on blower, headers and fuel system=10s in a 4wd regular cab truck
    Yeah I've noticed that too. It's pretty bad ass. Would be fun to do it in a full weight super crew truck. Still run 11s.

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    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    :flirt: SwollHottie's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 426HEMI View Post
    Jeebus. Thats actually temping for the next car .
    Same.

    Makes you wonder what the gt500 will be like.

  48. #1248
    Registered Member Black96lt1's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Griswold View Post
    Ouch! That's going to leave a mark.

  49. #1249
    What Would Oddjob Do? 5.0THIS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 426HEMI View Post
    Jeebus. Thats actually temping for the next car .
    Well apparently th y may not last at those levels, but I’m not sure I couldn’t buy a new GM truck when the fords are that strong. GM makes it too hard to get what you want. And too expensive.

  50. #1250
    What Would Oddjob Do? 5.0THIS's Avatar

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    Oh and I’d be happy with a blown f150 running mid to low 12s let alone low 11s high 10s.

  51. #1251
    It'll get ya fat KrispyCharger's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    Oh and I’d be happy with a blown f150 running mid to low 12s let alone low 11s high 10s.
    Yea, mid 12s out of a full size truck would be super solid

  52. #1252
    All cops everywhere suck Det.Scat's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by KrispyCharger View Post
    Yea, mid 12s out of a full size truck would be super solid
    Would definitely be awesome

  53. #1253
    Registered Member speed_demon24's Avatar

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    I would just get an ecoboost and throw a $500 tune on it vs $8000+ blower on a 5.0



    Or if you must just get this and keep a 3 year power train warranty. Not sure how fast it is at that power level. I'm past the point of chasing ever last horsepower on a street car.

    https://www.roushperformance.com/par...r-phase-1.html
    Last edited by speed_demon24; 10-17-2018 at 08:33 PM.

  54. #1254
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by speed_demon24 View Post
    I would just get an ecoboost and throw a $500 tune on it vs $8000+ blower on a 5.0

    Or if you must just get this and keep a 3 year power train warranty. Not sure how fast it is at that power level. I'm past the point of chasing ever last horsepower on a street car.
    https://www.roushperformance.com/par...r-phase-1.html
    Could one assume a 2wd standard cab f150 run mid to low 12s on some good tires?

  55. #1255
    All cops everywhere suck Det.Scat's Avatar

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    There’s a dude on Instagram who just bought an 18 Scatpack Charger. He removed all of the seats except for the drivers seat along with the floor mats. On tire, he ripped off an 11.6 last night with under 600 miles on the car.

    He said something like “if Dodge doesn’t want to give us a Charger 1320, I’ll make my own”

    Completely stock on a tire.

  56. #1256
    Whataburger > * Dr Griswold's Avatar

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    uh

    stock with gutted interior and not stock tires

  57. #1257
    In The Upside Down Gearhead SS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Griswold View Post
    uh

    ......and not stock tires
    That's what "on a tire" means.

  58. #1258
    underdog 4 lyfe ill deuce's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by speed_demon24 View Post
    I would just get an ecoboost and throw a $500 tune on it vs $8000+ blower on a 5.0



    Or if you must just get this and keep a 3 year power train warranty. Not sure how fast it is at that power level. I'm past the point of chasing ever last horsepower on a street car.

    https://www.roushperformance.com/par...r-phase-1.html
    watch out for the work trucks.

  59. #1259
    All cops everywhere suck Det.Scat's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Griswold View Post
    uh

    stock with gutted interior and not stock tires
    Do you even Challenger 1320 bro?

  60. #1260
    Registered Member mogs01gt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Det.Scat View Post
    There’s a dude on Instagram who just bought an 18 Scatpack Charger. He removed all of the seats except for the drivers seat along with the floor mats. On tire, he ripped off an 11.6 last night with under 600 miles on the car.
    He said something like “if Dodge doesn’t want to give us a Charger 1320, I’ll make my own”
    Completely stock on a tire.
    Sort of makes the 1320 useless since you can get a Tazer to unlock line lock and the transbrake. Suspension is the only thing the normal SP is missing but you could probably buy the 1320s suspension.
    Last edited by mogs01gt; Yesterday at 11:25 PM.

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