Removing DOD hardware & fitting a larger camshaft

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by Blue Dime

on a 07 5.3 LH6,was wondering if the part numbers,and so on would be the same on the 5.3 58x engine.

Yes on timing and valvetrain components.
No on head gaskets.
Unsure on valley cover.(There's something about the oil sender boss at the back and the PCV foul air tube at the front....you'll need to check clearance with your intake manifold, maybe that was only a problem with earlier LH6's).

Originally Posted by Blue Dime

One thing i cant understand is the cam sprocket,so if i go with 12586481,i can use any LS 3 bolt cam?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Blue Dime

And changeing the chain dampner to black,do i still use my stock chain?

Yes. The brown/yellow tensioner attempted to always keep the chain taut, whereas the black damper doesn't have 100% contact.
The black damper is really only there to stop chain whip, which is what has been breaking the brown/yellow tensioners and chains.
When you change to the black damper the stock chain will appear to be a little loose....but that's normal.

[Blue Dime]

THANK YOU !
Very greatfull for the information.

[Xtreme_lyb]

So I'm confused, cause I already started to buy the parts needed, but let's say that I have all the parts needed to remove dod, do I need to change the oil pump or not? If I leave the original on, I'm I going to have problems in the future? Thanks...

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by Xtreme_lyb

I'm I going to have problems in the future? Thanks...

If you keep the high volume oil pump and continue to use the high volume oil pan that came stock on the engine you'll be fine. Engine swap guys who change oilpans need to be alert though.

[E40]

Great info here.

[Blue Dime]

I realize its been a long time,but i still contribute my success to this thread Thankyou again

[towbar]

Wow!!! It looks like it was worth the wait. Nice to see a carbed LS engine too. Nice job.

.... and Great thread.

[quadfather]

i have question about this deal. i have installed all the parts speced out in the dod delete setup listed here. but i'm worried about the timing chain. i have the 3bolt gear with the black ls2 damper. but left the original chain since the eng. only hay 11k on it. but there seems to be a bunch of slack in the chain. do i need a different chain? or are they run that loose?

[HSV-GTS-300]

They do run looser than you'd expect. It's normal.

The yellow/brown tensioner contacts the chain and puts tension on it, but those tensioners break in service and allow the chain to whip around....which is what breaks the chain.
The older style black damper does not contact the chain, except for when it starts to whip. The black damper is more likely to stop chains from breaking because it's more sturdy and likely to be in one piece when you need it to be.

[quadfather]

thanks for the help. it had me nervous but after searching a lttle iot seems to be the norm.

[camarozz383]

Hey I to am new to this fourm, I just bought a 5.3 lmg from a 2008 gme serria, im putting the engine in my 89 camaro, and from what i can tell reading on the fourms is that will need new lifters, push rods, and a ls2 valley tray, and lifter buckets? i'm going with a carbureted set up with comp cam 54-600-11 cam shaft, I already got my k-member notched, oil pan cut 2" and new motor mounts made, is there anything you guys can tell me what i need to make this swap, list of parts,info anything that will make this go as smooth as possible/ thank you guys.

[camarozz383]

why are you drilling holes in the lifter buckets?

[Blue Dime]

Originally Posted by camarozz383

Hey I to am new to this fourm, I just bought a 5.3 lmg from a 2008 gme serria, im putting the engine in my 89 camaro, and from what i can tell reading on the fourms is that will need new lifters, push rods, and a ls2 valley tray, and lifter buckets? i'm going with a carbureted set up with comp cam 54-600-11 cam shaft, I already got my k-member notched, oil pan cut 2" and new motor mounts made, is there anything you guys can tell me what i need to make this swap, list of parts,info anything that will make this go as smooth as possible/ thank you guys.

I see you found your way

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by camarozz383

I just bought a 5.3 lmg from a 2008 gme serria, im putting the engine in my 89 camaro, and from what i can tell reading on the fourms is that will need new lifters, push rods, and a ls2 valley tray, and lifter buckets? list of parts,info anything that will make this go as smooth as possible/ thank you guys.

Yes you need 4 new lifter buckets because AFM lifter buckets are keyed to the AFM lifters.




Some parts houses have AFM delete kits available.

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by camarozz383

why are you drilling holes in the lifter buckets?

Only some people do this, it's to speed up oil drainback to the pan. It's really only going to be a concern if you have a smallish volume oilpan and don't want a quart of oil sitting in your lifter buckets, where the oilpump can't make use of it.
The risk is the drilling may allow the lifter bucket to crack or spread over time.
Lifter bucket then won't be as adequate in preventing lifter from turning sideways on the cam.

[camarozz383]

hey ok i got the parts needed to do the swap, but one question is do i have to dril and tap the holes for the lifter oiling gallies? and what is the point for doing this? can i just use o rings on the LS2 valley cover? thanks

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by camarozz383

but one question is do i have to dril and tap the holes for the lifter oiling gallies?

NO.

Originally Posted by camarozz383

and what is the point for doing this?

It's little more than SOME engine builders not trusting 8 small O Rings.

Originally Posted by camarozz383

can i just use o rings on the LS2 valley cover?

YES.

[F1ACM]

I am having an issue with my L76 truck and #4 intake DOD lifter Locking and Not unlocking for the 2nd time now.. I fixed it and 2 days later it locked again.... Can I just put LS7 lifters in with out removing the rest of the DOD stuff/cam and turn it off with a programer?

Thanks, Dave

[HSV-GTS-300]

Hi Dave,
The thing to remember is the AFM camshaft has slightly different lobes for the AFM cylinders. The lift is only 0.004" different but I've read the profile is as well, they did this to compensate for the heavier AFM lifters.
If you could live with that then:

You'd need to pull the heads and change the lifters, all 4 lifter trays, head gaskets, head bolts.

Optional but recommended would be to remove the AFM valley plate (LOMA) and replace with an LS2/LS3 style valley plate. By ridding yourself of the LOMA you simplify the oil path and reduce the areas where hidden seal failures can cause you trouble. As a bonus you also gain a better PCV system.

[MikeJr.]

Hello I'm new to the forum and to the LS motors. I just recently purchased a LH6 motor with DOD and I'm getting mixed info about how to best disable/delete it. Is it possible to only change the valley cover to the LS7 cover in order to disable DOD? Or is mandatory to do all the steps in this thread? I'm on a tight budget with my build so I'm just trying keep it as cheap as possible.

Also are there limited transmission chooses with DOD engines? I've read you can only use a 4L70E with a DOD motor.

I know these are newbie questions, but any info would be greatly appreciated.

[HSV-GTS-300]

There's no advantage in just changing out the valley plate. You can disable the AFM simply by getting it turned off in the tune and leaving all the AFM hardware intact.

If you wanted to get more performance with reliability then you'd be installing a higher lift camshaft and the main items you want to get rid of are the AFM collapsible lifters....then you're best bet is to remove all the AFM hardware. There's no point re-using the AFM valley plate with 4 oil solenoids in it if they are never going to be used & can potentially create an internal unseen oil diversion away from critical components.

So far GM have only been able to couple AFM engines to Automatic transmissions. It has nothing to do with gear shifts and everything to do with shudders and vibrations as AFM kicks in and out. The Autos do not transmit vibes thru the car anywhere near as much as a manual trans does.
6L80E works in Pontiac G8 with L76 AFM engine & Chev Caprice cop cars with L77 AFM engine.
Find out which auto Camaro use with the L99 AFM engine.

[AFM is the GM term for DOD.]

[HSV-GTS-300]

AFM oil pressure relief valve in the Oil Pan.
(Even cars without AFM engines can have these fitted as GM try to use one single V8 oilpan for an entire car model. So even if you have an LS3 in a 2010+ Camaro or 2009 Pontiac GXP it's likely there's an AFM relief valve in your oilpan. GM use the same oilpan assembly on AFM engines and non-AFM engines wherever possible).


Originally the GM AFM relief valve was Part Number 12594579, this was superceded in June 2006 by the new current Part Number 12608835.
The valve has a diameter of 19mm and has a hexagonal 17mm AF section at the top.
Underhead length is 14mm with only 11.5mm of it being threaded, the lower 2.5mm has no thread.
The thread is M14 x 1.50mm










A suitable plug IMO would be the Dorman Auto Grade Oil-Tite Drain Plug Part No 65386.
This plug comes with a copper crush washer to seal the thread.
65386 thread is M14 x 1.50
Hex head is 19mm AF
Underhead length is 12.3mm (you lose about 1.5mm of thread engagement due to the thickness of the copper crush washer, so the 65386 will still utilise the approx 11 mm depth of thread as the original valve).

Dorman 65386

[Micah327]

Hi, I have an Aussie L76 in a 2005 VZ. I'm trying to diagnose an internal knocking that I suspect is oil or valvetrain related. You seem to know a lot about them and I wondered if you knew of lifter/pump failures in this engine. I don't know which lifters are in it, but it has the DOD valley plate. She's one of Holdens prototypes for pursuit, and has no AFM badge so I doubt AFM is activated. I appreciate all I have already learned from this page and would like to thank the contributors.

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by Micah327

Hi, I have an Aussie L76 in a 2005 VZ. I'm trying to diagnose an internal knocking that I suspect is oil or valvetrain related. You seem to know a lot about them and I wondered if you knew of lifter/pump failures in this engine. I don't know which lifters are in it, but it has the DOD valley plate. She's one of Holdens prototypes for pursuit, and has no AFM badge so I doubt AFM is activated. I appreciate all I have already learned from this page and would like to thank the contributors.

It must be a very late 2005 to have an L76, but lots of weird things were happening with prototypes around that era. If you've got the AFM valley plate then you've got 8 AFM lifters & 8 normal LS lifters fitted. There's been 3 different versions of AFM lifter used and yours would be the earliest design.
Because the AFM lifter is basically a mini lifter inside an outer sleeve the oil volume inside is less than ideal. Designers have been battling leakdown rates to reduce cold start lifter tick and other issues.
Yes there have been lifter failures and oilpump failures from Day1 with the AFM engines. Early AFM oilpumps (mainly in L92) had clearance and seizure issues, it's difficult to say which version of oilpump would have been fitted to your very early L76. If you do have an AFM oilpump then in a VZ you're flirting with danger because the AFM pumps flow about 25% more volume than the standard pump....with the relatively low volume (6 litre) oil system and the front sump in VZ under certain conditions the AFM oilpump can have starvation issues.

There's next to no chance AFM was ever enabled in your prototype VZ, check the connector in the centre rear of the AFM valley plate. No harness means it's never going to work.

[Micah327]

Cheers. I've picked up what I need to test the oil pressure and start the hands on diagnosis. DOD plate isn't plugged into harness. If it is the pump can I use LS2 std vol/std press one before I get around to removing DOD hardware? Maybe just leave the relief valve until after DOD removed to be on the safe side. This thread is allot to take in all at once, maybe there's a reference I have forgotten. Makes sense, I shouldn't need extra vol?, and I haven't found anyone selling a special pump for L76 online in Australia. I hadn't planned to change the cam yet as I like how she drives with police spec mapping, and I suspect theTq Converter has been physically modified (much less washing, not designed for comfort or burnouts, just putting power to the road hard) making cam selection a little more involving. Sounds like it's worth speeding up the process just to remove potential dramas with DOD system.

[HSV-GTS-300]

Technically all the VE's should have been running the standard volume oilpump up until late 2009 when AFM hardware and software were utilised together...in Auto trans VE's with AFM badges.
However the L76 in your 2005 era prototype VZ could have an early AFM high volume pump...likely the same as the USA L92's used.

Personally I wouldn't change out the current oilpump until you rid the engine of AFM camshaft, AFM valley plate, AFM lifters.
Firstly because it would mean opening up the front of the engine twice & disturbing seals more often than you need to.
Secondly because there's been a few people recently who have tried half-assing the AFM delete process.....running all normal LS lifters with AFM cam and AFM valley plate & ending up with low oil pressure & a noisy engine.
If it is a high volume AFM oilpump you have there I'd keep it together with the AFM lifters, AFM valley plate, AFM camshaft. Let them all work together in the engine or all rest in peace in the recyling bin.

People have already tried running the AFM camshaft in an (AFM hardware deleted) engine and that does not work either. You'll strike problems with low oil pressure and possibly low dynamic compression in 4 of the cylinders if you try.
Best advice for a camshaft very similar (but non-AFM) would be the L98 camshaft GM#12625439 already used by Holden in most 2007-2009 VE's.
[You can find them new in USA for 1/3 the price Holden are asking].
If you wanted a mild upgrade an LS2 or LS3 camshaft would also give you reliability but with added punch. LS2 camshaft 12593206. LS3 camshaft 12623063. 16x LS3 valvesprings 12625033 for $100 ex USA.

[Micah327]

Cheers for those cam part numbers, was looking for exactly those 3. Best I found without being able to read specs was Lunati's smallest listed. More trouble fitting 2nd oil press sensor than I thought. Local auto sparky came through for me. Fire her up tonight and check my oil pressure. Dread what I will find, pump, lifter or other really nasty, but, I tell myself, unlikely possibilities.

[HSV-GTS-300]

Awesome stroke of luck for the sparky to have that fitting laying around.
I make them up with a banjo swivel so the side outlet can point anywhere you want.

[Micah327]

Yeah that's a beut alright. I had to prefit, mark, drill and tap the side port.

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by Micah327

Local sparky does gauge work for the walkinhaw place down the road.

I don't see hair gel all over it so maybe it's a different Walkinshaw distributor to my local one. Owner offers a free kickboxing lesson to anyone who disagrees with him.

[HSV-GTS-300]

Naah it has to be the same place.
<----Postcode 6164.

[Micah327]

Oil pressure peaking to about 25psi while cranking. I'm still confident that, although it can be very very bad, it doesn't fit the symptoms of crank related damage. Certainly puts the Damn AFM system in the spotlight...... I remember from earlier in this thread that pumps can fail then start again, maybe lifters too. Still, it's tempting just get rid of the AFM system and put in that Lunati cam....... According to them at least, it's the high torque, good midrange, responsive grind for LS6, and many LS2 share the same cam. Hopefully it will bog down less on my gearbox......Fired her up, noisy as hell. Good oil pressure though, flashed up to about 40, then dropped to 20 at an idle......... It's got worse sitting while I diagnose her, could be very informative, definitely not what I'd expect of big end/crank.... Can't see it having that much pressure if there's a leak a foot from the sender under the AFM plate..... I'm not a mechanic, but I'm not to bad at peicing things together. I think that almost rules out anything other than the lifters, push rods and AFM solenoids .....unless there are suggestions?

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by Micah327

I'm not a mechanic, but I'm not to bad at peicing things together. I think that almost rules out anything other than the lifters, push rods and AFM solenoids .....unless there are suggestions?

Best suggestion I can offer is to get the largest screwdriver you can find, about 2 feet long is good. Put the blunt end in your ear and place the sharp end at various places around the block. You'll soon get the hang of it and narrow down where the noises are most evident.
Best place to hear lifters is in the valley, between each injector and the valve cover....there's a thin strip of cylinder head available on each side of the engine. Run the blade of the screwdriver back and forth along that strip listening adjacent to each injector.

[Micah327]

You weren't wrong about ordering from the states. Didn't expect to find LS2 valley plate for under $100. Can get LS3 cam and all parts for less than the $370 Lunati wants for just the cam, looks alot better than the LS3 one though. Been looking for a good GM supplier in the states. GM parts dept. won't post to Aust. Found one cheaper but wants money order and that makes me suspicious. Any suggestions?

[HSV-GTS-300]

Yes I know the story....I've been using a place I can recommend. I've got a Lunati order being filled right now and the same place ships all the GM parts I need. Send me a Private Message or an e-mail and I'll guide you thru it.
I've also got a couple AFM delete kits here locally, we could pull parts from, if you fuck up and forget to order something from USA yourself.

[Free24x4]

Hi, I know this is an old thread but as many have said there is so much good info here. I have a L76 / L98 cross (dont ask) it has not been running since the mix of parts, it was from a 2008 VE auto ute but has had some part swaps with a crate motor. My only issue is when I strip it down to sort out the DODs stuff is there a way to identify what cam it has ie DOD or NON DOD

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by Free24x4

is there a way to identify what cam it has ie DOD or NON DOD

Yeppers.
See the green arrow....only AFM (DOD) cams will have this oiling groove.

[Free24x4]

Unbelievable, here I was thinking this has going to be difficult & you have nailed it in one

[HSV-GTS-300]

Originally Posted by Free24x4

Unbelievable, here I was thinking this has going to be difficult & you have nailed it in one

We could have also done it by measuring lobe lifts but it's much easier to look for a fucking big groove.

[Free24x4]

Yep you've got that right. One more question - I understand this L98 / L76 has an LS3 inlet manifold from standard 102mm ? bore but what is the standard size throttle body it should have fitted 90mm? what if I fit a 102?

Thanks for all your great help

[HSV-GTS-300]

The 2008 VE engine may have had the original L76 90mm intake manifold, soon after they changed to the LS3 which was almost identical and still 90mm. Half way along the right hand side between the central pair of injectors, you'll see the intake manifold part number and the firing order.
L76-#12590124
LS3-#12602477
Unless you've got a big cube stroker or a really wild camshaft anything larger than 90mm will not be required. Make the 102mm gear the last 10hp you're chasing and not the first.