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FUTURESTRADER
07-28-2004, 04:13 PM
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=6384 :woot:

FOR RELEASE: 2004-07-28

GM Powertrain Opens Performance Build Center


GM Powertrain inaugurates $10 million Performance Build Center to produce hand-built high-performance engines. First engine produced: LS7 V-8, beginning second-quarter 2005 Vortec 6000 6.0-liter all-aluminum V-8 (LS2), fourth generation of GM's hallowed small-block design, will be available in the 2005 Chevrolet SSR Fifty years of small-block heritage commemorated with launch of LS2 and exhibit area at Performance Build Center

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. is adding more muscle to its claim of "World's Best Powertrains" with the official opening of its Performance Build Center, a $10 million facility dedicated to building high-performance engines for low-volume, premium vehicles.

The first hand-built engine variant to come from the Performance Build Center will be the LS7 OHV V-8 that is the heart of the Z06 performance package earmarked for the 2006 Corvette; specifications and details for the LS7 will be provided at the 2005 North American International Auto Show.

Another variant of GM Powertrain's newly revised small-block engine family, the Vortec 6000 6.0-liter V-8 (LS2), powers the 2005 Chevrolet SSR. It is an all-aluminum version of the new fourth generation of GM's timeless small-block V-8. The Gen IV design comprises the latest series of technical revisions to the engine.

The new Gen IV small-block V-8 also will launch in several 2005 GM SUVs. Those trucks will use Gen IV V-8s with cast aluminum cylinder blocks and feature GM Powertrain's efficiency enhancing Displacement on Demand cylinder deactivation technology.

The 2005 launch of the Gen IV also marks the 50th anniversary of the small-block's launch in the '55 Chevrolet lineup. The Gen IV variant makes the small-block one of the most enduring designs of any mass-producing industrial sector.

Performance Build Center
The GM Powertrain Performance Build Center, a 100,000 square foot facility in the Detroit suburb of Wixom, is the culmination of former GM Powertrain Vice President Ned McClurg's vision to see the company's Powertrain division - the world's highest-volume producer of automotive engines - establish a reputation as a builder of hand-crafted, high-performance "niche" engines for low-volume specialty vehicles.

"Ned saw a strong market niche GM had not gone after in the past," said Timothy M. Schag, site manager for the Performance Build Center. The idea went to the highest levels of the corporation - but ultimately needed little selling. GM executives and planners already had foreseen the need to compete with other automakers crafting high-performance "image powertrains" for premium vehicles, said Schag.

Schag, a GM engineer with decades of powertrain manufacturing and engineering experience, traveled the world with other Powertrain engineers to study competitive niche-engine building facilities and benchmark race teams' operations.

The Performance Build Center will combine the best practices of contemporary niche-engine construction with the volume-manufacturing system that has enabled GM Powertrain to claim leadership in a string of recent J.D. Power and Associates rankings of manufacturing quality. Schag says, in fact, that while the Performance Build Center's volumes may be purposely small - capacity is 15,000 engines annually - all of the quality standards that apply to every GM Powertrain manufacturing facility will be fully in place. The facility will achieve TS 16949 certification by the end of the year and the site will be compatible with GM Global Manufacturing System processes.

Engines built at the Performance Build Center will be constructed by specially trained craftspeople from United Auto Workers Local 653, based in Pontiac, Mich. Each technician on the 80-person force receives extensive high-level instruction - every technician has built complete engines before.

This philosophy of craftsmanship and "ownership" is the crux of the Performance Build Center's philosophy. One technician will build a complete engine from start to finish. The Performance Build Center's highly flexible manufacturing concept and tooling, combined with technicians' ability to assemble any engine, mean that throughput of different engines can be quickly adjusted to address shifting market demand.

The Performance Build Center will be the focal point of GM's goal to make expressive and emotional vehicles, with powertrains that match that excitement. "It's a much more efficient way to get these special, high-performance engines to the street," said Schag.

The LS7 OHV V-8 for 2006 Chevrolet Corvette ZO6 is the first engine confirmed for the Performance Build Center, but others will follow.

"Performance means different things to different people. Sometimes it's pure horsepower. Maybe it's sophistication. Whatever the definition, this facility will deliver world-class engines," Said Schag.

Performance Build Center Fast Facts


A $10 million, 100,000 sq. ft. facility in Wixom, Mich.
First product: Gen IV LS7 small-block V-8 for 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
Specially trained technicians from UAW Local 653; each technician builds an engine from start to finish
Capacity: 15,000 engines annually; highly flexible "mix" can respond to quickly changing market conditions
Every engine to be hot-tested
SSR's Vortec 6000 6.0-liter ushers in fourth generation of small-block V-8
The new Gen IV Vortec 6000 6.0-liter V-8 (LS2) small block injects a new level of performance for the 2005 Chevrolet SSR.
Also new for 2005, the Gen IV Vortec 5300 5.3-liter small-block V-8 will feature GM Powertrain's Displacement on Demand cylinder deactivation to be rolled out in various 2005-model GM SUVs. In all applications, the Gen IV is revised in several key areas to enhance efficiency and durability, reduce friction and improve airflow.

For the 2005 SSR, the Vortec 6000 6.0-liter Gen IV small-block develops 390 hp at 5400 rpm and 405 lb.-ft. of torque at 4400 rpm. The SSR's Vortec 6000 6.0-liter LS2 is backed by a standard Hydra-Matic 4L65-E four-speed automatic transmission, or new for 2005, a Tremec M10 six-speed manual.

Numerous revisions, updates and improvements comprise the new Gen IV small-block V-8. "The new Gen IV engine is the best example yet of the continuous refinement in performance and efficiency that has been part of the small-block's legacy since day one," said Dan Nicholson, chief engineer of small-blocks.

A summary of new or changed components for the Gen IV architecture:

Larger 90-mm throttle body: The 6.0-liter displacement requires a higher volume of intake air; the Gen III throttle body is 75 mm. The new throttle body is mounted to a revised-design composite intake manifold with tuned runners to optimize airflow to individual cylinders.

New combustion-chamber design: Understanding of the flow characteristics in the highly tuned LS6 small-block were applied to the new Gen IV combustion chambers. The result is higher power output and increased volumetric efficiency.

Higher compression ratio: Hand-in-hand with Gen IV's new combustion chamber design is the ability to increase compression ratio to 10.9:1 compared to the 10:1 of the High-Output Vortec 6.0-liter Gen III V-8.

High-lift cam profile: Intake breathing is enhanced with a new, higher-lift camshaft. Also fitted are stronger valve springs to enable a higher peak-rpm range.

Flat-top pistons and stronger floating wrist pins: Floating piston wrist pins enhance durability, while engine testing and computer modeling demonstrated flat-top pistons generate the best power.

Compact, lighter water pump: All Gen IV V-8s are fitted with a more compact, more efficient water pump that reduces mass, conserves underhood space and reduces parasitic losses.

Deeper oil pan: The LS2 truck engine is designed with a deeper oil sump than the LS2 passenger-car engine. The new oil pan also incorporates a pass-through for a front driveshaft when used in four-wheel-drive applications.

Reduced-tension piston rings: Piston rings are a new, lower-tension design to reduce friction.

Redesigned crankcase vent: The crankcase vent is repositioned to the top of the block valley, where oil is less likely to enter during high engine speeds or high-g maneuvers.

New accessory-drive package: A new power steering pump and revised serpentine drive belt result in better space utilization.

Along with the increased power and torque when compared to the Gen III High Output Vortec 6.0-liter V-8, the new Gen IV Vortec 6000 6.0-liter continues GM Powertrain's ongoing commitment to reducing maintenance intervals and servicing costs.

Dexcool coolant and the platinum-tipped spark plugs have 100,000-mile change intervals. An Oil Life System function, built directly into the engine control module, calculates ideal oil-change intervals based on a variety of performance parameters.

Gen IV Vortec 6000 6.0-liter V-8 Fast Facts


First truck application: 2005 Chevrolet SSR
First small-block V-8 for truck applications to use aluminum cylinder block
390 hp (291 kW) at 5400 rpm
405 lb.-ft. (542 Nm) of torque at 4400 rpm
Numerous internal revisions enhance power as well as improve efficiency
GM Powertrain marks 50 years of small-block heritage
GM Powertrain is introducing its new Gen IV small-block V-8 architecture for several 2005 model GM vehicles exactly 50 years after the original small-block was launched for Chevrolet in 1955. One of any engine family's most important design elements - the distance between bore centers - remains the same 4.4 inches for today's new Gen IV as it was in Chevrolet Chief Engineer Ed Cole's seminal initial design.
Compact, powerful and packed with innovative technology: it's an accurate description of the new Gen IV V-8, and those same words were used to describe the original small-block in 1955.

In addition to its new, all-aluminum 6.0-liter variant for car and truck applications (LS2), the Gen IV architecture will be launched in V-8-equipped models of the 2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer EXT, GMC Envoy XL and Envoy XUV, offering fuel-saving Displacement on Demand (DOD) technology.

"The small-block V-8 not only is a viable and relevant engine in today's market, but technology such as Displacement on Demand demonstrates its adaptability in the face of evolving marketplace expectations," said Dan Nicholson, chief engineer of small-blocks.

DOD has the capability to disable the combustion process of half the engine's cylinders in certain driving conditions, enabling fuel savings of up to 8 percent. The process is instantaneous and virtually imperceptible, and the engine delivers horsepower and torque bands comparable to previous non-DOD small-block engines.

The first passenger-car version of the Gen IV V-8 - without DOD - debuts in the 2005 Chevrolet Corvette.

GM Powertrain estimates that by the end of the 2005 model year, more than 90 million small-block-based engines will have been produced since the original engine's 1955 introduction.

Compact design the heart of small-block advantage
Contemporary demands for efficiency and performance refinements were the very demands that pushed the original small-block's development 50 years ago. It started in the early '50s with the planned replacement of Chevy's sturdy, but antiquated, straight-six engine - a large, heavy powerplant commonly called the Stovebolt Six.

Although a new V-8 was on the drawing table when Chief Engineer Ed Cole transferred from Cadillac to Chevrolet in 1952, he soon dismissed the original design and challenged his engineers to develop a more compact engine that would be easier to manufacture. The overhead valve design had been a staple of the Stovebolt engine and, to some at GM, one of the Chevrolet cars' selling points. Retaining that trait was agreeable with Cole, whose previous assignment was the design of Cadillac's OHV V-8.

When completed, the new V-8 engine had a minimalist design to take advantage of streamlined production techniques. Innovations like green-sand casting, which allowed the block to be cast upside down and dramatically reduce the number of cores, as well as lightweight stamped-steel rocker arms that allowed a much higher rpm range, were state-of-the-art.

The new small-block's cylinder heads were another important step forward. Their cross-flow port design and wedge-shape combustion chambers were very efficient and, when combined with the high rpm capability of the valvetrain, gave the new V-8 a broad performance band. Also, the engine's quintet of head bolts around each cylinder provided superior cylinder head location. Other innovations included:


Hollow pushrods to transfer lubricating oil to the cylinder heads
A single-piece intake manifold combined the water outlet, exhaust heat riser, distributor mounting and lifter valley cover in a single component
Internal lubrication eliminated the need for external oil lines, greatly reducing the chance for leaks
Compact size required less iron to produce the engine and less water to cool it during operation.
The internal oiling system was a breakthrough not found on many other automotive engines at the time, especially in Chevrolet's low-price field.
And though a seemingly inconsequential specification at the time, the new small-block engine also was designed with 4.4-inch bore centers - the distance from the center of one cylinder to the next. The design contributed to the engine's compact size, but the dimension has come to symbolize the balanced harmony of the small block. It was the dimension around which the all-new Gen III small block was designed in 1997.

"The long history of the small-block is one of the reasons the new generation of engines is so powerful and efficient," said Nicholson. "GM has almost 50 years of experience with its valve-in-head design, and that has provided immeasurable detail for keeping the small-block a viable, relevant engine for today and the future."

A legacy of power and adaptability
With 3.75-inch bores and a 3.00-inch stroke, the first small-block displaced just 265 cubic inches (4.35 liters). Drawing its breath through a two-barrel carburetor, the base version produced 162 horsepower (gross); with a four-barrel, the engine was rated at 195 (gross) in the Corvette. Better still, it weighed nearly 50 pounds less than the old Stovebolt Six.

From that auspicious beginning, the small-block was at the forefront of technology. A fuel-injected version of the engine was available from 1957 through the mid-‘60s, and as the horsepower wars of the late Sixties raged, the small-block proved to be powerful ammunition for Chevrolet.

The small-block would grow to a maximum of 400 cubic inches and, with the 2004 Corvette Z06's LS6 engine, produce 405 horsepower. In less glamorous, but perhaps more important roles, small-blocks reliably powered millions of family cars and work trucks.

When marketplace demands required more efficiency, the small-block was downsized to accommodate. But as engineers found new and better ways to extract power from the venerable engine, the small-block's displacement and power increased while meeting - or exceeding - federal requirements for fuel efficiency and lowered emissions.

In the early ‘90s, the Gen II small-block was introduced in high-performance cars including the Corvette and Pontiac Firebird Trans Am. Known as the LT1 and, later, the LT4, the Gen II featured new, low-friction internal components and reverse-flow cooling to enable the most powerful small-blocks since the heyday of the muscle car era. Some Gen II features, including the low-profile, high-flow, intake manifold previewed technology that would be incorporated into the all-new Gen III.

The Gen III was introduced as the LS1 5.7-liter engine in the 1997 Corvette, while Vortec versions of the Gen III for trucks were introduced in 1999, with displacements ranging from 4.8 liters to 6.0 liters. The Gen III engine benefited from new technology and production methods, but its design drew upon more than 40 years of research and continuous improvements from the Gen I and Gen II small-blocks.

Continual improvements also drove the development of new efficiencies and power increases in the Gen IV small-block.

Milestones
The legacy of the small-block has left an indelible mark on the global auto industry and American automotive culture. Some of its many noteworthy milestones include:
1955: Small-block V-8 introduced in 1955 Chevrolets.
1957: Larger bore increased displacement to 283 cubic inches (4.6 liters); Ramjet mechanical fuel injection was introduced, bringing horsepower to 283 - one horsepower for every cubic inch.
1962: Displacement increased to 327 cubic inches (5.4 liters), with Ramjet fuel injected version rated at 360 horsepower.
1964: Cylinder head improvements bump the 327's highest horsepower rating to 375 with fuel injection.
1967: Little-known option Z28 released for the Camaro, which includes a high-revving 302-cubic-inch (4.9-liter) small-block for competition in SCCA Trans Am road racing.
1968: A Camaro Z28 wins the Trans Am championship; a 350-cubic-inch (5.7 liters) version of the small-block debuts and would become the quintessential small-block variant.
1970: 350-cubic-inch LT1 debuts in Camaro and Corvette and is rated at 370 horsepower; 400-cubic-inch (6.6-liter) small-block is offered - the largest-displacement small-block built.
1975: With fuel economy prevalent in consumers' minds, a more efficient 262-cubic-inch (4.3-liter) small-block is introduced.
1978: V-6 engine based on small-block design introduced; it would become the Vortec V-6 truck engine more than a decade later.
1980: Last year for the 400 small block.
1982: Fuel injection reintroduced with the Cross-Fire injection system on Corvette and the redesigned Camaro Z28.
1985: Tuned port fuel injection replaces Cross-Fire Injection, ushering in the modern era of electronically controlled, port-injected engines.
1986: Aluminum cylinder heads debut as standard equipment on Corvette; block changed to accept new single-piece rear main seal.
1987: Hydraulic roller lifters introduced.
1989: The H.O. 350 "crate engine" is developed, offering a ready-built performance engine from the factory. It would change the way hot rodders approach engine building in the next decade.
1992: LT1 engine in the Corvette introduces Gen II small block design, which features reverse-flow cooling, revised cylinder head design, and crank-triggered optical distributor.
1996: Vortec V-8 engines introduced in trucks, featuring cylinder heads with swirl-inducing combustion chamber design to increase power and torque.
1997: Gen III 5.7-liter LS1 small-block introduced with all-new Corvette, featuring all-new deep-skirt block casting with six-bolt mains; redesigned cylinder heads with symmetrical ports and combustion chambers; and coil-near-plug ignition system.
1999: Gen III-based Vortec V-8 engines introduced in GM trucks; displacements include 4.8 liters, 5.3 liters and 6.0 liters.
2005: Gen IV small-block introduced 50 years after the original.

More than power or displacement, the significance of the small-block has been its adaptability as market demands and technology evolved during the past five decades. Engineers have met every challenge and kept the small-block on the leading edge of performance.

The introduction of the Gen IV engine signals the small-block's legacy will extend for decades to come.

50Stang
07-28-2004, 04:14 PM
you should look at your PM's man.. i sent you one 3 days ago

Richard De Jonsano
07-28-2004, 04:16 PM
How many cubes?

Big Block Stingray
07-28-2004, 04:17 PM
The LS7 BETTER be a 427 Damnit! :mad:

esandes
07-28-2004, 04:18 PM
let the muscle car wars begin.....once again.

state69champ
07-28-2004, 04:19 PM
:lol:

FUTURESTRADER
07-28-2004, 04:19 PM
6.4 Liters and close to 500 HP

Dolemite
07-28-2004, 04:19 PM
:eek: :cool:

Big Block Stingray
07-28-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by FUTURESTRADER
6.4 Liters and close to 500 HP

Not even close to a 427. :(

STANG KILLA SS
07-28-2004, 04:21 PM
longest post evar :eek:

Victory
07-28-2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by Big Block Stingray
Not even close to a 427. :(

so what if its got 500hp:dunno:

FUTURESTRADER
07-28-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Big Block Stingray
Not even close to a 427. :(

I don't know why people honestly thought Chevy would put a 427 in the standard Z06.

GM is trying to keep the price around $60,000.

GMMG put a 427 in a Camaro and charged $90,000. http://www.gmmginc.net/html/zl1427_info.html

Maybe in the Blue Bird. ;)

Mac

cm_ls1
07-28-2004, 04:24 PM
the GTO better also get the 6.0L - 395HP (slightly detuned so corvette can save face...)

STANG KILLA SS
07-28-2004, 04:26 PM
think the 90mm intake and TB will bolt up to our LS1s?
i heard alot of the parts will be interchangable........:cool:

Richard De Jonsano
07-28-2004, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by FUTURESTRADER
6.4 Liters and close to 500 HP

Screw that! I wanted a 427.

Big Block Stingray
07-28-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by FUTURESTRADER
I don't know why people honestly thought Chevy would put a Big Block 427 in the standard Z06.

GM is trying to keep the price around $60,000.

Maybe in the Blue Bird. ;)

Mac

Well it's just that we here that G.M. is taking Viper gead on, I think it would only be proper for the 427. It would take much to bore and stroke the 6.0L block to a 427, but the just bored it. I'm sure it will be a runner regardless just hope it's enough for the Viper.

Richard De Jonsano
07-28-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by FUTURESTRADER
I don't know why people honestly thought Chevy would put a Big Block 427 in the standard Z06.

GM is trying to keep the price around $60,000.

Maybe in the Blue Bird. ;)

Mac

I knew they wouldn't go with a big block, but I was hoping for something like the C5R motor...small block size and big block cubes.

Pillamyd
07-28-2004, 04:30 PM
A $10 million, 100,000 sq. ft. facility in Wixom, Mich.


i live in a town right next to wixom :p gonna have to drive around and find this place

dscott
07-28-2004, 04:34 PM
Just tell me it will be available as a crate engine

FUTURESTRADER
07-28-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Big Block Stingray
Well it's just that we here that G.M. is taking Viper gead on, I think it would only be proper for the 427. It would take much to bore and stroke the 6.0L block to a 427, but the just bored it. I'm sure it will be a runner regardless just hope it's enough for the Viper.

Viper is a Ragtop and weighs 3,400 lbs.

If the Z06 (Hardtop) comes in around 3,000 lbs like GM is saying, that is a 400 lb difference for better handling and the equivalant of 40 more Horsepower.

Shouldn't even be close. :no: :woot:

Mac

McRat
07-28-2004, 04:52 PM
The 427 is NOT a big block. It is a bored and stroked Gen III small block, and can be built out of the GM Performance Parts Catalogue.

AHMAD
07-28-2004, 04:58 PM
I guess now I gotta get a C6 Z06 on order too!

:(

:D

VELO
07-28-2004, 04:58 PM
:drool:

FUTURESTRADER
07-28-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by McRat
The 427 is NOT a big block.

Damn :eek: :eek: :eek:

How Thin are the cylinder walls?

Mac

FUTURESTRADER
07-28-2004, 05:08 PM
Here's a Link to the GMMG 427 http://www.gmmginc.net/html/zl1427_info.html :drool:

Big Block Stingray
07-28-2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by FUTURESTRADER
Damn :eek: :eek: :eek:

How Thin are the cylinder walls?

Mac

Mac, I'm sorry i thought you knew I was talking about a small blocks. You can even bore and stoke (aftermerket block) a small block to a 472ci. :eek:

The only problem is that they are "Disposable" engines. They take the block and bore it to the max and stroke it. This is cool and all until you drop a piston and score the cylinder wall and have to -rebore which you can't b/c it's already at the max.

TARZAN
07-28-2004, 06:23 PM
I think its about time for Chevy to jump on the blower car bandwagon. All these CI's seem to be gettin a lil high for DD cars IMHO....

-Will

Kata Skopos
07-28-2004, 06:30 PM
LS2 IN THE SSR!!!!!!!! IM IN FOR SURE!!!!

i will have one as soon as they come out!!!!!!

krispycobalt
07-28-2004, 06:44 PM
hmm, now they cant just supercharge the vette can they....no, wont fit with the tradition

Kata Skopos
07-28-2004, 06:47 PM
they should definitly keep it NA... its a Zo6... it doesnt have to be the most streetable car ever. give it 500 RWhp on all motor and watch the viper and for GT guys cry:cool:

deadpool
07-28-2004, 06:47 PM
Now you're playing with power!!! Even the SSR will have some power now- with a 6 speed to boot!! Let's see what other platforms are going to get the LS2, LS7...
:boxer:

Fallacy
07-28-2004, 07:02 PM
The LS1 is gonna be so underpowered in about 4 years. :(

SSkindog
07-28-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by FUTURESTRADER
I don't know why people honestly thought Chevy would put a 427 in the standard Z06.

GM is trying to keep the price around $60,000.

GMMG put a 427 in a Camaro and charged $90,000. http://www.gmmginc.net/html/zl1427_info.html

Maybe in the Blue Bird. ;)

Mac

Quit calling it the "Blue Bird"

Blue is a fuggin bus company:rolleyes:

Dirk Diggler
07-28-2004, 07:05 PM
YOu mean to tell me a truck is gonna wax my LS1's ass :(

LS1LT1
07-28-2004, 07:05 PM
Good news, thanks. :beer:


Originally posted by STANG KILLA SS
think the 90mm intake and TB will bolt up to our LS1s?
i heard alot of the parts will be interchangable........:cool:
The Corvette TB is 'drive by wire' but otherwise it should all fit...I heard the intake had some elements about it that might make it slightly inferior to even the LS6 intake, like ridges (left from the molding process) throughout it that could cause some turbulance. :shrug:

MapleRed
07-28-2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
YOu mean to tell me a truck is gonna wax my LS1's ass :(

If you're referring to the SSR w/ the LS2, it won't wax your f-body. The SSR weighs well over 4,000 lbs. I seriously doubt it will even hang w/ an ls1 f-body. But at least its a big improvement over the 5.3. :cool:

LS1LT1
07-28-2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by TARZAN
I think its about time for Chevy to jump on the blower car bandwagon. All these CI's seem to be gettin a lil high for DD cars IMHO....
I disagree...GM is still quite conservative when it comes to daily driveability and I don't think they would put it on the street if it couldn't deliver the idle quality, fuel economy and durability/longevity on pump gas standards.
Forget FI, I love NA. :banana:

Richard De Jonsano
07-28-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by MapleRed
The SSR weighs well over 4,000 lbs

4,760 to be exact.

TSi SS-R
07-28-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by FUTURESTRADER
Viper is a Ragtop and weighs 3,400 lbs.

If the Z06 (Hardtop) comes in around 3,000 lbs like GM is saying, that is a 400 lb difference for better handling and the equivalant of 40 more Horsepower.

Shouldn't even be close. :no: :woot:

Mac

SWEET that ZO6 is going to be amazing.

dont know about Viper standing still tho, rumors are that a Hemi V10 may be on the way to give the GT and ZO6 some better competition.

Son of Man
07-28-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by needcash
they should definitly keep it NA... its a Zo6... it doesnt have to be the most streetable car ever. give it 500 RWhp on all motor and watch the viper and for GT guys cry:cool:

The Z06 has some big shoes to fill if it wants to mess with the Ford GT. The GT pulled the third quickest lap time on Top Gear's course, only to be beat by the McLaren Mercedes and the Porchse Carrera GT (both cars only beat it by a second or two, and cost 2-3 times as much.)

I love Z06's, but they are nowhere near the same league as a Ford GT. If the rumored Blue Devil ever hits the streets, then maybe, maybe that will be able to run toe to toe.

Good news for GM though, we need more cars out there to trounce this ricer craze. :yup: :drive: :nono: :type-r:

MapleRed
07-28-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Richard De Jonsano
4,760 to be exact.

Thanks. I thought it was over 4500 lbs but was too lazy to go look it up. :wall:

Azrael Dark
08-22-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by 69Muscle
The LS1 is gonna be so underpowered in about 4 years. :(

Nah.....besides, even if it is, it's mostly going to be other Chevys that are faster stock:) I know the LS1 is far from chevys first small block, but I feel like they really stepped it up a notch when they made the LS1. Makes me feel like it led the way for all these new things there coming out with now, like the LS2 and LS7, I'm defintely happy at how promising they all look.

Besides....in 4 years not much will be faster stock for stock under like 60 grand.

C6
C6 Z06
WRX STI--Possibly if they add more HP like they said they will
Mustang Cobra
2007 Camaro Z28 & SS--Possibly if it comes back
Skyline--Possibly if it comes to the USA and is improved
350z TT--Possibly if it becomes an option for a top line model

Other than that I can't think of anything that will possibly even be faster stock for stock in 4 years within even a reasonable price range. The next thing up from the Vette that is under 100K is the Viper and thats really it. The LS1 is going to be up top for a LONG LONG time just because of its potential for mods and the fact that it's so strong stock.

Chief Pontiac
08-23-2004, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by FUTURESTRADER
6.4 Liters and close to 500 HP 500 hp 7.0 liters and 427 ci.

Also the Dodge boys plan on supercharging the Viper in 2007 so GM with be doing that with a supercharged 427 Vette.

chupa
08-24-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Azrael Dark
Besides....in 4 years not much will be faster stock for stock under like 60 grand.

C6
C6 Z06
WRX STI--Possibly if they add more HP like they said they will
Mustang Cobra
2007 Camaro Z28 & SS--Possibly if it comes back
Skyline--Possibly if it comes to the USA and is improved
350z TT--Possibly if it becomes an option for a top line model
While I agree with your point, I must point out that you left off Mopar. With their announcement of the 420ish HP hemi, they are obviously not just sitting back and watching the HP race.

JohnnyLS2
08-26-2004, 06:46 PM
don't forget the 300C & Magnum SRT-8's. Mopar is comming along nicely as well. Hopefully the Charger doesn't look like complete ass.

I'll take an LS7 please. I guess my LS1's performance is on pay with the LS7. :cool:

grumpy z
08-27-2004, 07:47 AM
does anyone have links or pics for the upcoming dodge charger??? or even news about the skylines?

Cam
08-27-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Chief Pontiac
500 hp 7.0 liters and 427 ci.

Also the Dodge boys plan on supercharging the Viper in 2007 so GM with be doing that with a supercharged 427 Vette. I wish that were so, but the Vette's not getting a 427.
Futerstrader is correct- the LS7 that will power the Z06 is a 6.4L motor.

Adam G
08-29-2004, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by ZO6Cam
I wish that were so, but the Vette's not getting a 427.
Futerstrader is correct- the LS7 that will power the Z06 is a 6.4L motor.

I'm pretty sure that its a 6.4 too, but do you have anything solid to base that on? I was fighting about it the other day on another website and I could use the ammo.

cm_ls1
08-29-2004, 11:54 AM
And i'm pretty sure youre looking at the first glimpse of the LS7 .. here first ,

All engine parts are from the Gen IV small block family
Engine Displacement: 6.4L (389 CID)
Bore: 105.03mm (4.135”)
Stroke: 92.00mm (3.622”)
REV Limit: 7000 RPM
Peak Hp: 575 Hp @ 6800 RPM
Peak Tq: 500 Lb-Ft @ 5200 RPM
Compression Ratio: 10.5:1
Cam Shaft: Custom GM Hyd Roller
Valve lift: 15.75mm (.620”)
Cam Duration Int: 232 deg @ .050” Tappet
Cam Duration Exh: 272 deg @ .050” Tappet
90mm Throttle Body
Dual Mass Air Flow sensors, Cold air induction system

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise2.jpg

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise9.jpg

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise10.jpg

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise11.jpg

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise14.jpg

Cam
08-29-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Adam G
I'm pretty sure that its a 6.4 too, but do you have anything solid to base that on? I was fighting about it the other day on another website and I could use the ammo. I guess that depends on how you define solid. There's a lot more info out there suggesting it'll be 6.3-6.4L than there is suggesting it will be 7.0L.

See page 5-6 in this document:
http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/09-2003/1-111-9-26.pdf

Not real solid, but there's much more out there.

The most compelling thing I've seen was an official looking GM document in PDF format listing engines by RPO code that was "leaked", which included the LS2 and LS7. The LS2 was correctly listed as 6.0L, and the LS7 was listed as 6.4L. Unfortunately the document was pulled from the forum it was posted on, presumably because GM threatened legal action.

Edit: Not the original PDF document, but here is a post where someone copied and pasted from that document:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showpost.php?p=1546799764&postcount=68

All you have to do is type "LS7" into the search engine on the Corvette forum and you'll find plenty of people who either work for GM or have friends who do, who proclaim the new LS7 powerplant to be a 6.4L motor. There is also plenty of people who think it'll be a 7.0L, but when you read their posts they seem to fall into the "wishful thinkers" category. That's just my opinion of course, since I haven't found any posts from "GM insiders" who claim the LS7 to be 7.0L.
For example:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=733586
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=747078

Maybe they'll produce a 7.0L variant (for the Blue Devil??), but my bet is that if produced, it'll be under a different RPO code (ie not LS7), and since GM has officially announced that the next Z06 will be LS7 powered, well there goes the 7.0L Z06 rumor, as far as I'm concerned.

Cam
08-29-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by cm_ls1
And i'm pretty sure youre looking at the first glimpse of the LS7 .. here first ,

All engine parts are from the Gen IV small block family
Engine Displacement: 6.4L (389 CID)
Bore: 105.03mm (4.135”)
Stroke: 92.00mm (3.622”)
REV Limit: 7000 RPM
Peak Hp: 575 Hp @ 6800 RPM
Peak Tq: 500 Lb-Ft @ 5200 RPM
Compression Ratio: 10.5:1
Cam Shaft: Custom GM Hyd Roller
Valve lift: 15.75mm (.620”)
Cam Duration Int: 232 deg @ .050” Tappet
Cam Duration Exh: 272 deg @ .050” Tappet
90mm Throttle Body
Dual Mass Air Flow sensors, Cold air induction system

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise2.jpg

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise9.jpg

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise10.jpg

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise11.jpg

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/cruise14.jpg
You could be right... since that IS an official GM concept car...
http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5316

However, I have a hard time imagining that car passing emissions with that cam! :eek:

I would think the production version of that motor would use a smaller cam and make less HP (say in the 500HP ballpark).

I would also venture to guess that the twin-MAF intake pictured would be GTO-specific to aid in giving the motor a true Ram Air intake. I think the LS7 in the Z06 will utilize a "bottom feeder" Ram Air intake as in previous Corvette models.

Hopefully we'll find out for sure soon! :cool:

Cam
08-30-2004, 03:15 PM
I've got another observation regarding the cam that GTO is using. Look at the exhaust duration!

I was talking with a friend of mine (95 Formula) last night about this car, and he pointed out that with all that exhaust duration, that motor must need to get rid of A LOT of exhaust, presumably because it is taking in so much air on the intake stroke. Comparing the intake duration to the exhaust duration, a logical conclusion is that the cam was designed to take advantage of a 3 valve head.

Just speculation of course, but the rumors of 3 valve heads on the LS7 have been out there for a while. IMHO, it is unlikely a 6.4L motor would make 575bHP with that cam and compression if they are using a LS6 style head.

Anyone know what kind of exhaust setup that GTO is using? Does it have headers and offroad pipes, or is it making 575bHP through exhaust manifolds and a full catted exhaust?

Chief Pontiac
08-31-2004, 02:26 AM
Nope, it will be a 7 Liter 427 pumping out 500 +hp.See the latest info from DigitalCorvettes.com in my post New ZO6 info.Also the 427 will have a red line of 6,500 rpms.

Cam
08-31-2004, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by Chief Pontiac
Nope, it will be a 7 Liter 427 pumping out 500 +hp.See the latest info from DigitalCorvettes.com in my post New ZO6 info. I saw your post. See my reply. :)

Good stuff if it's true!

Chief Pontiac
08-31-2004, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by ZO6Cam
I saw your post. See my reply. :)

Good stuff if it's true! You and me both.I also heard the the ZO6 might get a ram air type hood scoop.

GTPDan
09-01-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Chief Pontiac
Nope, it will be a 7 Liter 427 pumping out 500 +hp.See the latest info from DigitalCorvettes.com in my post New ZO6 info.Also the 427 will have a red line of 6,500 rpms.

Wrong, heres the RPO listing from the RPO master list current through SOP 2008.

LS7 14938 P ENG M ENGINE GAS, 8 CYL, 6.4L, SFI, ALUM, HO, GM 718 E X E A

Cam
09-02-2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by GTPDan
Wrong, heres the RPO listing from the RPO master list current through SOP 2008.

LS7 14938 P ENG M ENGINE GAS, 8 CYL, 6.4L, SFI, ALUM, HO, GM 718 E X E A The PDF of the RPO master list was posted briefly on another fourm last winter, with the exact info you just posted.

The SPECULATION is that GM "couldn't hit the 500HP" target with 6.4L in an emissions friendly package, and upped the displacement to 7.0L.

A lot of so-called insiders have backed this claim up, and some even quoted Bob Lutz, although no one has proven (at least to me) that Mr. Lutz said anything of the kind.

I think the fact that they turned out 575HP with the GTO a few posts up proves that getting 500 out of 6.4L certainly shouldn't be a problem. I can't imagine a more emissions friendly cam sucking more than 75HP out of that setup. :dunno

I'm going to continue to assume it's a 6.4L until PROVEN otherwise, since the evidence still points that way as far as I'm concerned. I think these people who are convincing themselves and each other that it will be a 7.0L are setting themselves up to be disappointed.

I can hear them now, "What?! ONLY 6.4L!? What a jip!"

Chief Pontiac
09-02-2004, 03:22 AM
I will be sticking with the 7.0 liter 427 engine because I have enough info to go in that direction.

Cam
09-02-2004, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by Chief Pontiac
I will be sticking with the 7.0 liter 427 engine because I have enough info to go in that direction. I've been reading everything I could find on DC and I'm still not convinced. Guess it won't be long beforel we know for sure!

Chief Pontiac
09-02-2004, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by ZO6Cam
I've been reading everything I could find on DC and I'm still not convinced. Guess it won't be long beforel we know for sure! Yep and if I get the info first I will post it here.:)

02redhawk
09-04-2004, 03:44 AM
Its not a 7.0L. The pics above of the GTO feature the new LS7 intake & heads. The casting number of the heads is 8452. No ram-air hood for the Z06.

Your HP guesstimates are pretty close, however. Its *not quite* 500hp.... Yet.

Chief Pontiac
09-04-2004, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by 02redhawk
Its not a 7.0L. The pics above of the GTO feature the new LS7 intake & heads. The casting number of the heads is 8452. No ram-air hood for the Z06.

Your HP guesstimates are pretty close, however. Its *not quite* 500hp.... Yet. :cool: Ya I thought I was close. :)

Cam
09-04-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by 02redhawk
Its not a 7.0L. The pics above of the GTO feature the new LS7 intake & heads. The casting number of the heads is 8452. No ram-air hood for the Z06.

Your HP guesstimates are pretty close, however. Its *not quite* 500hp.... Yet. Howdy! Saw you over at Tech!

Out of curiosity, did you come by this info at work, and if so who do you work for?

02redhawk
09-07-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by ZO6Cam
Howdy! Saw you over at Tech!

Out of curiosity, did you come by this info at work, and if so who do you work for?


These were not public vehicles, if that's what ya mean.


Although, for that matter, did anyone happen to notice the casting #'s on the concept GTO while at the Dreamcruise?

Tannim
09-24-2004, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by 69Muscle
The LS1 is gonna be so underpowered in about 4 years. :(

That's why there's engine swaps. I'm looking at an LS2 myself

gdu
09-24-2004, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Tannim
That's why there's engine swaps. I'm looking at an LS2 myself

it MIGHT be worth it for an LS7, but an LS1 to LS2 swap is a waste of money and effort.

02redhawk
10-29-2004, 01:39 AM
Didn't see it posted on here, but the LS7 is also a dry-sump engine.

ozemuscle1
10-30-2004, 03:01 PM
so this is what we've been hearing in australia...from carpoint.com.au

CarPoint has learned that the 7.0-litre Gen IV V8, to be unveiled in the Corvette Z06 at the Detroit motor show in January, is almost certain to power the next generation HSV GTS sedan and coupe. The new engine, due for North American launch in the Corvette late in 2005 along with a new six-speed automatic gearbox, could be here in early 2006.

HSV marketing boss Chris Payne's only response to our information was "we'll reveal details about the GTS at the appropriate time". He would not be drawn on exactly when "the appropriate time" would be.

Payne did confirm that the GTS badge was being "rested", not retired, and despite recent comments by General Motors' enigmatic product czar Bob Lutz that the LS7 will produce 500hp, Payne refused to budge.

"There is nothing to tell about GTS. There is no GTS at this time."

Lutz, however, is less secretive when it comes to future GM product.

"A German competitor has just launched a complicated V10," Lutz said. "Our overhead valve V8 has the same power and performance, and only revs to 6500rpm."

Lutz is referring to BMW's 5.0-litre V10 engine in the M5 sedan, which revs beyond 8000rpm. BMW's engine produces 500hp (373kW) and 520Nm of torque. The M5 accelerates from rest to 100km/h in 4.8 seconds.

General Motors' new Wixom high performance engine facility in Detroit is confirmed to build the 7.0-litre LS7 engine alongside a supercharged version of the NorthStar V8 for the Cadillac XLR roadster. Initially the LS7 engine will find its way into the extreme Z06 Corvette in late 2005 before finding homes in other GM products, like the HSV GTS.

According to GM global drivetrain boss Tom Stephens, the Wixom facility has the capability to produce 15,000 "high performance niche engines for low volume specialty vehicles."

Stephens said the establishment of Wixom is an important step for General Motors. He was less than complimentary of third party tuners like Callaway which tweaked GM engines. "We can't guarantee the quality and durability of their work, and any problems that arise from it reflect poorly on the GM product itself."

HSV's Payne admitted that Callaway, the supplier of high performance engine parts for the previous GTS, is "not a supplier to HSV at this time". He declined to confirm if that status would change in the near future.

the HSV GTS was the flagship car for HSV with the 300kw Callaway tuned LS1 up until the introduction of the LS2 to the range. it has since been dropped.