Bad Experience with Cartek tuning

[foff667]

After 3 months of back and forth I finally went over there for the 5th time this evening to have them pull my tuning...after a long discussion with dave & julio about why i wanted my tune pulled and put back to stock and asking for at least a partial refund they had a few laughs at my expense and decided to not give me a penny back even though they've pulled their tune. Now for any cartek guy thats gonna come in here and bash me which I know there will be let me give you a little background on teh situation & teh many reasons that i wanted the tune pulled in the end. In early April i installed my heads cam, not any of carteks packages...tsp's as you can read in my sig what pkg and mods I have...I scheduled a date with dave for a couple weeks later to get tuned(busy shop) went in julio was about 2-3 hrs late got me up on the dyno, tuned me, went on my way...in the rain that night...I believe that friday after the tune(on a tuesday) i went up to island for a test & tune...first time down the track car goes directly to 3rd & eventually 4th gear, no 1 or 2, so i schedule a second appointment with them early the next week i believe. So I go back there turns out it was something in the tuning and within 5 minutes but a 50 mile drive each way im on my way.

After this i head to the track again, this time atco...now the car is bugged by an off idle hesitation that IMO was largely due to the tune in some way...so again i tell dave whats going on and he tells me to bring it in again...so im off another 50 miles to see them, dave sends on of the shop workers with a tech 2 to check out my car...i drive and reproduce the worker captures some frames and notices there were missfires not a big deal imo since it is a large cam but he and dave decide that its probably my plug wires...my 1 month old msd's...ok whatever, in the meantime i pulled julio to the side about an email he had sent me saying we should move up my shiftpoints which he had initially set at around 6400 seeing that my cam made peak at 6300...so i told him just to set them to 6600 and bump the rev limiter to 6800rpms...also i stated i was having some surging when my converter would lock and just asked him to bump up the lockup points so it wouldnt do it any longer...anywayz they didnt have any stock plug wires in stock so I went out and bought them on my own and installed them... hesitation didnt go away and i wasnt gonna embarrass myself at the track, so i played with the plug gaps and checked up down and all around to find whats wrong, still nothing, so once again contact dave...another couple of weeks till he can schedule me and another drive out and they now put me up on the dyno for a second time knowing this was probably nothing they could fix on the dyno since it was off idle i dont think the rollers would like it if you went wot from idle but whatever I let them run their course...another hour on the dyno and still nothing as expected. At this point I've had enough and decided to buy hp tuners to do the tuning myself.

This is when it gets interesting before i bought tuners my friend hooked me up to efi live on his laptop since its a bit more advanced then autotap and his laptop will run circles around mine...he finds that one of my o2's isnt working and im running in open loop. Now generally it wouldnt be a big deal to be tuned in open loop but I was never made aware of this...and we'll get back to the 02 sensor.

So my friend tells me to fix the o2 and buy tuners which i do...i buy a new o2 sensor...nothing, so it has to be in the wiring...come to find out the purple wire on the pass o2 was cut...clean cut, I knew I hadnt done it but had no clue who did.

Next i get tuners read the program thats in my computer maybe my downfall maybe not as if not i wouldnt have been the wiser...but my findings were my lockup tables were still crap, rev limiter set at 6600, car at the time was shifting 1-2 at ~6000-6100 and 2-3~6400, misfire tables not desensitized, timing table pretty jacked up...0-12 degrees of retarded timing across the band(this is where they had a laugh at my expense joking they should put 40 degrees across the board and send me on my way) haha funny :barf: not to mention in the iat temp vs timing retard anywhere from 110+ i got 1-12 degrees of retard...so now im talking 1/3 stock timing at some rpms if my iat gets to say 150 which even in april i was hitting that # in the staging lanes...jersey aint that hot in april fwiw.

Finally I bring the car back to cartek today and pull dave to the side to talk about at least a partial refund talks with julio & comes back out...finally julio unlocks my car, and in the meantime dave comes over to me and asks me if I want them to hook up my o2 sensor:confused: thoughts of the cut wire come to mind that i had wired back up a couple of days prior, "you mean the one you cut" I said lol"yah we have to unhook them to put the car in open loop"...anyways finally follow him and brings me up to the office where he tells me they've never had anyone ask for a refund for their tuning and he doesnt intend to start giving them now...so i run through all the things wrong, they have their little laugh & call me cry baby because im asking for a partial refund of a crap tune. I left with little to say as im not gonna freak out over money...went to my car tuned it and within 2 hours and 3 tunes had the converter locking and unlocking when it should not at random and the hesitation has all but dissappeared. Ive still got a ton of little things as you could expect to do but ive got a smile on my face even knowing Im out of $600 in tuning charges and about $100 in gas money considering i was getting 8-12 mpg with the open loop tune to go back and forth to fix nothing in the end.

Sincerely,
Bill Henn

[262 77]

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[eboggs_jkvl]

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[Dave@Cartek]

Bill I am still confused. We talked about a lot of things and here is some of it.
You brought your car to us to have it tuned. We did not pick your combination nor did we ever put down you choices. We did recommend a higher stall converter and at least 3.73 gears to match up with your combination. After tuning your car, you asked to raise the shift points, which we did. You complained of an off idle hesitation, which we looked at a couple of times, and we made recommendations to fix the problem. When you came to us on Thursday, you told us, you had read the tuning file and felt it was too conservative.

When you pay some one to tune your car, you are paying for they’re knowledge and time. The software is the tool.

You paid us to tune your car the way we feel is best from years of tuning experience. And we did. We never charged you to scan your car and give advice. We did not pick your combination.

You came in Thursday and made all sorts of accusations and laughed at some of our analogies. We did not laugh at you. We did laugh at some of your accusations.

I will say it again you went to a baker and ordered a cake = tune.
You ate the cake = raced and driven the car.
You took the resepy = read the tuning file and I am sure you still have it.
You then tell the chef that you think he doesn’t know how to bake and want your money back. And this is where we all laughed.

Your car barely ran when it came in. We tuned the car in open loop, which we have found is the best way on cams with a lot of over lap, to prevent the car from running rich over time. We made changes at your request. When the car left on Thursday with your own tune, it stalled repeatedly and wouldn’t idle worth a dam.

In short we tuned your car. You have the tune in your computer. You wanted a refund. We said no. Good luck with your car.

Dave

[foff667]

just to add to this When i last ran the car at the track with carteks tune the temp was 55 degrees & 78% humidity & the baro was at 29.36 and it ran
2.189 (bogging launching at 1800rpms with hoosiers set at 30psi)
5.728
8.574
86.9mph
10.914
12.997
112.00

tonight my friends and I hit atco...their timeslips didnt have the info but according to weather.com at 6:54(my run was at 6:50pm) it was 87 degrees with 85% humidity baro at 29.78, my hoosiers set at 18psi ran
1.89
5.411
8.285
85.98mph
10.657
12.758
112.07mph

this is on the stock tune sans idle, shift points & rev limiter basically no spark or fueling changes whatsoever...30 degrees warmer, 7% more humid and better mph. Take that for what its worth but im sure theres tons more in the car...i got in a bunch of runs after that but was basically there just to have fun and play with my shift points which are now setup. Man it was humid out there by the end of the night there was dew on my tool box and car by the last couple of runs so definitly not the best air to run in.

lata
Bill

[foff667]

Originally posted by Dave@Cartek
[B]You complained of an off idle hesitation, which we looked at a couple of times, and we made recommendations to fix the problem.

Which was fixed immediatly after the tune was pulled as the stock tune had no hesitation meaning it was in the tune all along:mad:

When you came to us on Thursday, you told us, you had read the tuning file and felt it was too conservative.

would you have rather me lie to you? Then youd be up here calling me a liar, yes i thought the tune was very conservative, but the fact that you cut my o2 wire without telling me, the fact that you tuned me in open loop without telling me, as well as various other things led to my decision...i could care less if the car ran well with a conservative tune but it didnt and thats the bottom line.

When you pay some one to tune your car, you are paying for they’re knowledge and time. The software is the tool.

obviously little knowledge was used in this tune so i shouldve been refunded for at least that portion of the "tune" i understand i used some dyno time charge me for that...your service was below par though and shouldve been refunded.

You paid us to tune your car the way we feel is best from years of tuning experience. And we did. We never charged you to scan your car and give advice. We did not pick your combination.

scan all you want you shouldve started with the tune and worked from there as I did and got the car running better then with your tune within 5 minutes.

You came in Thursday and made all sorts of accusations and laughed at some of our analogies. We did not laugh at you. We did laugh at some of your accusations.

i laughed because you blamed everything but the tune...its like the dog ate the homework excuse....and yes you both laughed in my face with the 40 degrees of timing remark, the bottom line is that was just one part of your tune i was unhappy with and you tried to dwell on just that part of it.

I will say it again you went to a baker and ordered a cake = tune.
You ate the cake = raced and driven the car.
You took the resepy = read the tuning file and I am sure you still have it.
You then tell the chef that you think he doesn’t know how to bake and want your money back. And this is where we all laughed.

so what your saying is because i drove the car with your bad tune in it for 3 months and went back and forth to your shop 45 miles each way its my fault? I tried to get the car running right on my own you tried diagnosing the problem on the dyno when it was an off idle issue that couldnt be replecated on the dyno...if you drove the car on the street or at the track like I did you wouldve felt it...the 2 blocks you drove it on back roads near your shop isnt quite enough. And I sure as hell wasnt laughing at your comments I thought it was pretty much thee most unprofessional thing ive ever seen, heard in my entire life & I work in a customer service field.

Your car barely ran when it came in. We tuned the car in open loop, which we have found is the best way on cams with a lot of over lap, to prevent the car from running rich over time. We made changes at your request. When the car left on Thursday with your own tune, it stalled repeatedly and wouldn’t idle worth a dam.

well sorry i cant tune over an already edited program so i had to take 5 mins to raise the idle I took it around the block and realized that wasnt gonna do so parked it, tuned some more and drove it 20-30 miles to bertuccis in the rain without stalling...maybe you shouldve followed me too :rolleyes: if hptuners was out when my install was done i wouldve gone that route but it wasnt so i didnt have the option and thought you guys were my best bet because i have friends that have been tuned & had work performed by you.

In short it was a bad tune in my car, I ran faster in worse weather with the stock tables in my car great job :2guns: