g8 GXP for 09

[ULTIMTEORANGESS]

nothing official but in 09 it looks good that a g8 will be either getting an ls3 or possibly an LSA which is a 500 plus HP SCed motor that CTS-Vs are getting. :cool:

[F1_SS]

Link or what do you have as proof?

[ULTIMTEORANGESS]

Originally posted by F1_SS
Link or what do you have as proof?

latest GMHTP.

[F1_SS]

Originally posted by ULTIMTEORANGESS
latest GMHTP.

Nothing about the camaro?

[ULTIMTEORANGESS]

Originally posted by F1_SS
Nothing about the camaro?

not that i saw but theyre good about reporting info as it comes.

[SphyNxXx]

Originally posted by F1_SS
Nothing about the camaro?

If the G8 gets a blown v8.....then you know what the Camaro will get. As a rule of thumb, I would say to watch the G8 as it will probably get much of the Camaro's stuff.

[Checkmate]

370 something to 500 is a big jump.

[MapleRed]

I'm sure a more powerful engine is coming but I dont know if I believe GMHTP. Some of the insiders on the web boards are much better sources. Aside from that, I'm looking forward to additional performance variants of the G8.

[Kata Skopos]

WOW! im not sure i believe 500ish hp. thats HUGE! if so it would have to cost well into the $40ks huh?


even so, im pumped :D



id kill 80% of you for a AWD buick version :D

[Gravy Train]

I doubt that also. LS3 is realistic, if they can deliver 450 HP from it (packaging constraints, esp. intake and exhaust manifolds). I really don't see this car getting the same engine as the upcoming CTS-V; even now, we don't know exactly what the CTS-V will be getting, except that it WILL be a pushrod motor.

I can say I'm still very much interested in this car, even if we don't get the GXP as hoped. I wonder how closely engineers are watching DCX; the '08 or '09 SRT-8 cars (300C, Charger, Magnum, Grand Cherokee and upcoming Challenger) will drop the 425 HP 6.1L HEMI for a revised 500 HP 6.4L engine.

[cm_ls1]

the great thing about the g8 is the handling ! , the ride, the looks !

extra power comes cheap on the ls(x) range of engines.

chassis/suspension on the other hand needs to be fundementally well designed from the start !

cornering is on par with with a 335i

and i was looking at the edmunds slalom firgures , better than a vette c6 ! ( i dunno how accurate that is , drivers , conditions on the day) but impressive none the less..

lx cars plough hard when pushed through corners from tests ive seen

[Gravy Train]

When will G8s start to ship? If it's being introduced as a 2008 model, is it realistic to expect showroom models by August? We need a spy at Adelaide. ;)

I've also read that only GTs with the auto will ship first; manuals will show up on later shipments, probably not until Q1 2009.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Imperator
When will G8s start to ship? If it's being introduced as a 2008 model, is it realistic to expect showroom models by August? We need a spy at Adelaide. ;)

I've also read that only GTs with the auto will ship first; manuals will show up on later shipments, probably not until Q1 2009.

August is too early. I heard around the very end of this year.

[Harmon Rabb]

:wahoo:

[kasim]

nice ... my granddads lease is up on his m45 and is looking now at buicks ..... i keep telling him to wait for the g8

[Hobbes]

Call me a skeptic, but I don't see GM having a Pontiac outshine or try to compete with the CTS-V. I'm sure at some point it will get an option package such as the GXP with a nice bump in hp but nothing as good as 500.

[cm_ls1]

zeta babeeeey !

dual stainless 3" ? wonder whats goin on under the hood ;)

http://g8gt.com/attachments/349d1179501427-veunder1.jpg

http://picsorban.com/upload/whipple.jpg

[mrgto]

Why the F can't GM use aluminum in their control arms? BMW, Infinity, Lexus all do...why can't GM do it in their premium sports sedans?

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Hobb3s
Call me a skeptic, but I don't see GM having a Pontiac outshine or try to compete with the CTS-V. I'm sure at some point it will get an option package such as the GXP with a nice bump in hp but nothing as good as 500.

Maybe an LS3 as the top option? That might make more sense and would be a nice bump over the L76.

[MTU 5.0]

Originally posted by mrgto
Why the F can't GM use aluminum in their control arms? BMW, Infinity, Lexus all do...why can't GM do it in their premium sports sedans?

I wonder what the new CTS will use. That would be a better comparison than a Pontiac/Chevy application.

[Hobbes]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Maybe an LS3 as the top option? That might make more sense and would be a nice bump over the L76.

That would make a little more sense

[cm_ls1]

a 500 hp gxp would be cool !!!! :D

too close to the cts-v though ?

http://g8gt.com/attachments/354d1180889600-gxp.jpg

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
Why the F can't GM use aluminum in their control arms? BMW, Infinity, Lexus all do...why can't GM do it in their premium sports sedans?

Because this is priced significantly less than a BMW.

And FYI. Not all BMW's have aluminum suspension components.


2003 330Ci
http://www.a2mac1.net/DataAutovision/DE02/DE02Disque40/Big/DE02A_002_258_01.JPG


It also might be worth noting that the part that would normally be aluminum (and is on vehicles like the CTS) even on this 2008 330i are cast iorn. The knuckle is 100% unsprung weight and should be made from as light a material as possible. - it's not.

http://www.a2mac1.net/DataAutoVision/SH07/Big/SH07Car038_240_01.JPG

[mrgto]

That's all well and good but there has to be a reason why their cars are so much lighter than GM cars.

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
That's all well and good but there has to be a reason why their cars are so much lighter than GM cars.

Are they?

BMW M5
OAL 191.5"
OAH 57.8"
OAW 72.7"

Curb Wt. 4012lb

Cadillac CTS-V
OAL 191.5"
OAH 57.3"
OAW 70.6"

Curb Wt. 3850lb

A 3-Series is lighter than a CTS because it is a lot smaller.

As you can see by the measurements; the CTS and M5 are almost identically sized yet the CTS is lighter.

[judge smails]

Originally posted by dave1w41
Are they?

BMW M5
OAL 191.5"
OAH 57.8"
OAW 72.7"

Curb Wt. 4012lb

Cadillac CTS-V
OAL 191.5"
OAH 57.3"
OAW 70.6"

Curb Wt. 3850lb

A 3-Series is lighter than a CTS because it is a lot smaller.

As you can see by the measurements; the CTS and M5 are almost identically sized yet the CTS is lighter.


Yikes, thats two for you none for mrgto.

[Sir Ringo]

Originally posted by cm_ls1
a 500 hp gxp would be cool !!!! :D

too close to the cts-v though ?

http://g8gt.com/attachments/354d1180889600-gxp.jpg

:drool:

Holy hell. That car looks amazing. I don't know if I can realistically see 500hp in a Pontiac...but it's going to be a wicked car nonetheless.

[mrgto]

Dave, please feel free to compare the weight of the GTO to the M3. Very comparable cars.

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
Dave, please feel free to compare the weight of the GTO to the M3. Very comparable cars.

Your statements regarding GM's vehicles and BMW's vehicles are based entirely on the comparison between a single model from each company? To humor you, I will make the comparison.

2006 M3
OAL 176.9"
OAH 54"
OAW 70.1"

WT 3415

2006 GTO

OAL 189.8"
OAH 54.9"
OAW 72.5"

WT 3725

I think the 13" difference in overall length might account for the 300 pounds of additional weight in the GTO. :boggled:

The GTO is a lot bigger car than the M3. An M3 is a small car. Even a Pontiac G6 is over a foot longer than an M3. They are very comparable unless you actually compare them; then you find out that the M3 is much smaller than the GTO.

[MapleRed]

Dave 3
MrGTO 0

[cm_ls1]

i could get used to my gxp ;)

http://g8gt.com/attachments/355d1180971414-gxp2.jpg

[Marvin]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Dave 3
MrGTO 0

:sux2bu:


:jump:

[dave1w41]

I'm really not trying to insult anyone; I'm just trying to set some misperceptions right.

[mrgto]

13" of sheet metal, even all the way around doesn't weigh 300...sorry. Do they use aluminum in their suspension? does the new 3 series? All I asked was WHY doesn't GM...if they want to improve fuel economy out of their vehicles, they need to lighten the cars up....use of aluminum anywhere you can is the basic first step.

[HOTCIVIC]

Originally posted by cm_ls1
i could get used to my gxp ;)

http://g8gt.com/attachments/355d1180971414-gxp2.jpg

:drool:

[Dwight Schrute]

A red interior in this type of vehicle is a huge mistake.

There will be classier options right?

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by mrgto
13" of sheet metal, even all the way around doesn't weigh 300...sorry. Do they use aluminum in their suspension? does the new 3 series? All I asked was WHY doesn't GM...if they want to improve fuel economy out of their vehicles, they need to lighten the cars up....use of aluminum anywhere you can is the basic first step.

Its not just GM. Look at what a Chrysler 300 weighs, its more than the G8 and they are about the same size.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Dwight Schrute
A red interior in this type of vehicle is a huge mistake.

There will be classier options right?

The red interior looks good. But I'm sure there will be the usual assortments of black, grey, tan.

[Sir Ringo]

Originally posted by cm_ls1
i could get used to my gxp ;)

http://g8gt.com/attachments/355d1180971414-gxp2.jpg

Wow. This car is amazing :drool:

Originally posted by Dwight Schrute
A red interior in this type of vehicle is a huge mistake.

There will be classier options right?

Right, performance-oriented color offerings in a performance vehicle. Biggest blunder GM could make :boggled:

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
13" of sheet metal, even all the way around doesn't weigh 300...sorry.


Oh really? Who's the automotive engineer here? You cut 1 foot out of a car and tell me if you can lift the chunk of metal, rubber, sound deadener, wiring and drivetrain? It's an easy 300 pounds - easy. If you take the overall length of the car and divide it by feet and weight the GTO weighs 235# for every foot of length. The M3 despite it's use of supposedly lighter components in the front suspension and rear lower control arms is still #231 per foot of length. The use of aluminum costs more an saves surprisingly little weight unless you can use it for something really big - a major piece of structure or powertrain helps. Aluminum has to be many times thicker than steel and the apparent weight savings often disappears because the part has to be made so much thicker. A properly engineered steel part is lighter than a poorly engineered aluminum part.

Car companies use steel instead of aluminum because sometimes it's better to not try to sell a $50,000 car like the M3 for $30,000 like the G8 or GTO. You would only go to Aluminum if the steel part was absolutely unable to meet the mass target.

The Ford Mustang is 214# per foot of length and it's bigger and lighter than an M3. I attribute a portion of the weight advantage to not using an IRS BTW. Why can't a BMW be as well engineered as a Mustang and use a simpler suspension to cut weight?
OAL 187.6
OAH 54.5
Wt 3356

I think it's clear to avoid judging a car entirely based on it's weight. One wants to see how efficiently a car utilizes that mass and what it offers in trade for the additional size/weight.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by 72Tornado
Wow. This car is amazing :drool:



Right, performance-oriented color offerings in a performance vehicle. Biggest blunder GM could make :boggled:

:werd:

Its nice to see something other than the standard boring interior colors.

[MapleRed]

Dave 4
mrgto 0

;)

[Dwight Schrute]

Originally posted by 72Tornado
Wow. This car is amazing :drool:



Right, performance-oriented color offerings in a performance vehicle. Biggest blunder GM could make :boggled:

The target market for this car won't be interested in a boy-racer red interior.

Are you the guy that drives an Evo?

[cm_ls1]

Originally posted by Dwight Schrute
A red interior in this type of vehicle is a huge mistake.

There will be classier options right?

what kinda question is this? , who makes a car with only one interior color option :p

http://images.cainer.net//uploads/hsv4.jpg

http://images.cainer.net//uploads/hsve6.jpg

http://images.cainer.net//uploads/hsve3.jpg

before you ask the next question - yes its avail in m6 , even though the a6 is hella nice unit too ;)

[Dwight Schrute]

That black interior is solid.

As a young professional, I could see myself driving this vehicle to the office and enjoying it.

I'll take the A6 too please.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Dwight Schrute
The target market for this car won't be interested in a boy-racer red interior.


:umm:

Even the Vette has that color combo interior option.

Don't M3's come w/ a similar option as well?

[judge smails]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Dave 3
MrGTO 0

:lol:

[judge smails]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Dave 4
mrgto 0

;)

:lol: :lol:

[MTU 5.0]

Originally posted by cm_ls1
i could get used to my gxp ;)

http://g8gt.com/attachments/355d1180971414-gxp2.jpg

They need to add the brushed metal trim to the dash and I think that would look better. A little too much red and black for me. Break it up with the metal finish.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/02/pontiacg8_hi_08.jpg

[jr. gong]

Man I want this car, but it's a pig like the LX cars.. :barf:

[mrgto]

I like how Dave then wanted to include suspension parts into his equations.

That's ok, we'll agree to disagree. The G8 is going to be 4,000 lbs

It would be nice to find a way to reduce the weight on future projects...I hope the memory metals and poylomers can help solve some of those issues.

[Frcefed98]

Originally posted by cm_ls1
a 500 hp gxp would be cool !!!! :D

too close to the cts-v though ?

http://g8gt.com/attachments/354d1180889600-gxp.jpg



hmmm no hood scoops on the GXP....

[Gravy Train]

Originally posted by Frcefed98
hmmm no hood scoops on the GXP....


...and that's a good thing.


<--one of the few who prefers the clean contours of the '04 GTO hood over the '05-'06 with misplaced hoodscoops.

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
I like how Dave then wanted to include suspension parts into his equations.

That's ok, we'll agree to disagree. The G8 is going to be 4,000 lbs

It would be nice to find a way to reduce the weight on future projects...I hope the memory metals and poylomers can help solve some of those issues.

I think the G8 will be in the same realm weight-wise as a GTO or a CTS. It probably will be pretty close to 4000 pounds - but then again, so is the M5.

[mrgto]

Originally posted by jtomkins
you didnt bring up suspension?


I said sheet metal. I was refering to the suspension of the BMW's, and NOT including it in the weight of the inches that the GTO had over the M3. GTO's suspension is cast iron which is heavier than steel.

[mrgto]

Originally posted by dave1w41
I think the G8 will be in the same realm weight-wise as a GTO or a CTS. It probably will be pretty close to 4000 pounds - but then again, so is the M5.


Holden has it at around 3950. It's on their website.

[Element]

Originally posted by mrgto
I like how Dave then wanted to include suspension parts into his equations.

That's ok, we'll agree to disagree. The G8 is going to be 4,000 lbs

It would be nice to find a way to reduce the weight on future projects...I hope the memory metals and poylomers can help solve some of those issues.

They're already out there. They're simply too expensive - and will continue to be too expensive - to be used on sub-$40,000 cars.

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
I said sheet metal. I was refering to the suspension of the BMW's, and NOT including it in the weight of the inches that the GTO had over the M3. GTO's suspension is cast iron which is heavier than steel.

The M3 has cast iron knuckles in the rear and all of the control arms but one are steel. The front does make nice use of aluminum though. Still; the reason the M3 is lighter is because it is simply a lot smaller vehicle than the GTO. The total of making all of those parts from steel or cast iron into aluminum would amount to maybe 100 pounds but probably more like 50. The M3 being a much higher priced car than the GTO; there's more money in that package for frills like lightweight materials. The GTO may not be as light as it could possibly be but it costs $20,000 less than an M3. Part of that difference in price is reflected in the materials used in the suspension.

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
Holden has it at around 3950. It's on their website.

Like I said; pretty close to 4000 pounds.

[judge smails]

Originally posted by mrgto
I said sheet metal. I was refering to the suspension of the BMW's, and NOT including it in the weight of the inches that the GTO had over the M3. GTO's suspension is cast iron which is heavier than steel.


just give up bro.

[Trendkiller Z28]

Originally posted by cm_ls1
a 500 hp gxp would be cool !!!! :D

too close to the cts-v though ?

http://g8gt.com/attachments/354d1180889600-gxp.jpg :drool::Ohnoes:

[shuck]

Originally posted by mrgto
I said sheet metal. I was refering to the suspension of the BMW's, and NOT including it in the weight of the inches that the GTO had over the M3. GTO's suspension is cast iron which is heavier than steel.

Just because you use aluminum doesn't mean you will save a lot of weight. On non critical components it will save some but on parts like suspension and such aluminum is lighter but you have to use more of it. In one of my labs at school they demonstrated this, and I was shocked on how much aluminum they had to use.

[mrgto]

Originally posted by shuck
Just because you use aluminum doesn't mean you will save a lot of weight. On non critical components it will save some but on parts like suspension and such aluminum is lighter but you have to use more of it. In one of my labs at school they demonstrated this, and I was shocked on how much aluminum they had to use.

Aluminum vs cast iron, you're going to save weight. Otherwise no auto manufacturer would even bother using it. They would just use cast iron since it's cheaper.

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
Aluminum vs cast iron, you're going to save weight. Otherwise no auto manufacturer would even bother using it. They would just use cast iron since it's cheaper.

The weight savings has to justify the cost and your perception of how much weight is saved appears to be incorrect - especially when cost is factored in. The difference in weight between a control arm made from steel and one made from aluminum is mere ounces and the same goes for a knuckle made from cast steel or nodular iron vs. one made from aluminum. Sometimes the additional cost is just not worth the weight savings.

You act like having aluminum suspension components on the G8 would make it a 3500 pound car... That's just not the case. It might make it from a 3950 pound car into a 3885 pound car. It's a big car; the size of a BMW 5-series. It is similar in weight because that's how much a car like that weighs. I appreciate the use of lightweight alloys as much as the next car nut but it's not the difference between a stone chisel and a scalpel.

[judge smails]

dave 6
mrgto 0

This may be the most ownage in board history.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by judge smails
dave 6
mrgto 0

This may be the most ownage in board history.

Thanks for the score update. I lost track. :)

[mrgto]

It's just an opinion......if they can do it for the high volume cars they should be able to do it for the low volume cars. Amazing more don't agree that GM should go to almuminium over cast iron. I thought you wanted GM to be a leader in fuel economy?

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by mrgto
It's just an opinion......if they can do it for the high volume cars they should be able to do it for the low volume cars. Amazing more don't agree that GM should go to almuminium over cast iron. I thought you wanted GM to be a leader in fuel economy?

If the savings is ounces there's a lot better ways to spend that money to save weight. Going to a lightweight battery for example that cost $50.00 instead of $20.00 is a much better way to save 10 pounds than going to aluminum for every suspension component and having it cost $500.

[MTU 5.0]

Originally posted by mrgto
It's just an opinion......if they can do it for the high volume cars they should be able to do it for the low volume cars. Amazing more don't agree that GM should go to almuminium over cast iron. I thought you wanted GM to be a leader in fuel economy?

The OEM's have to juggle a lot of "balls" so to speak when engineering a vehicle. They have to meet tougher and tougher safety requirements, consumer expectations on amenities, in the domestics case they have pension and healthcare costs far exceeding their competitors, etc. If the engineering/business case was there for aluminum, it would be used. As Dave has stated, it's not going to save all that much anyway unless of course you go all aluminum for the sheetmetal/body structure, ala some Jaguar models. That saves significant weight, but the cost is far too great for a vehicle like the G8.

[Sir Ringo]

Originally posted by Dwight Schrute
The target market for this car won't be interested in a boy-racer red interior.

Are you the guy that drives an Evo?

I'm gonna have to try pretty hard to resist flaming on this one. You DO know that GM offers a red/black two-tone interior on the CORVETTE, right?

And yeah, I bought the Evo, 'cause I needed a performance-oriented AWD vehicle. I think it's laughable that people bring this up to try to discredit me. Oh, and funnily enough, my interior is black and gray :slap: Furthermore, I wouldn't go with that red interior if I was buying the car.

But you must be right. I'm sure GM is going to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars by dyeing a few lots of leather and dash materials red instead of black. What an awful business decision, giving choice to the consumer and all.

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by MTU 5.0
The OEM's have to juggle a lot of "balls" so to speak when engineering a vehicle. They have to meet tougher and tougher safety requirements, consumer expectations on amenities, in the domestics case they have pension and healthcare costs far exceeding their competitors, etc. If the engineering/business case was there for aluminum, it would be used. As Dave has stated, it's not going to save all that much anyway unless of course you go all aluminum for the sheetmetal/body structure, ala some Jaguar models. That saves significant weight, but the cost is far too great for a vehicle like the G8.

:yup:

You can see a direct effect of price over cost on the CTS. All of the knuckles and front suspension components are aluminum. Of course; they charge more for the CTS than they will for the G8. One of the primary engineering targets of the CTS is an excellent world-class ride and isolation removing a couple of pounds of unsprung weight helps a lot with ride quality so there's more use of lightweight materials. They charge more and the targets are different so the car's construction is different. Comparing the G8 to a BMW is more than somewhat unfair to the G8. The G8 is in a different price class and has different targets for refinement and ride quality than a BMW or Cadillac would. It's close; very close to a BMW for performance, handling, and refinement but it's a compromise - it's cheaper and maybe not as good in some areas where you are unlikey to notice it in everyday driving.

[Frcefed98]

Man looks like the G8 will be my next car....was shooting for a new camaro, but the G8 is pretty wicked and has 4 doors. Be a nice "quick" and stylish family car.

[Sir Ringo]

Originally posted by Frcefed98
Man looks like the G8 will be my next car....was shooting for a new camaro, but the G8 is pretty wicked and has 4 doors. Be a nice "quick" and stylish family car.

500hp, even in a 4,000lb car, is gonna be better than just "quick" :o

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by 72Tornado
500hp, even in a 4,000lb car, is gonna be better than just "quick" :o


Proof of that would be the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger.

[Sir Ringo]

Originally posted by dave1w41
Proof of that would be the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger.

Yeah...and the fact that the SRT-8s are "only" running 425hp...

[JRothschild13]

I really hate quad tips.

[Kata Skopos]

yes 4000lbs is a bit heavy but it IS a 4 door :shrug:

this isnt a gt500 we're talking about here :o :wall:

[cm_ls1]

will be mine!

http://g8gt.com/attachments/359d1181148633-gxp3.jpg

[Kal-El]

dave is my hero. :love:

[Kata Skopos]

"daves not here!"

[dave1w41]

Originally posted by Kal-El
dave is my hero. :love:

What can I say? :bow:

The G8 is a product worth defending.

:bow:

[Frcefed98]

Originally posted by 72Tornado
500hp, even in a 4,000lb car, is gonna be better than just "quick" :o

Oh I agree, it'll be very quick for what it is. My 'bird has me spoiled when it comes to going fast...turbo's are good at doing that. But the G8 will definately be a fun family hauler and look great while hauling the family around.