Wonder when GM will.........

[LS123]

I wonder when GM will do away with pushrod technology? I know these LS series make good power but with the CAFE and emission regulations they could have invested all these R/D into something like pent roof combustion chambers and DOHC/OHC. I also read GM is releasing the variable cylinder (drops cylinder on demand) thing. I think GM is the only BIG car company that uses pushrod technology on performance vehicles.

[Poltergeist]

They may be waiting to get rid of the pushrods when they get rid of the cam. Many companies are working on cam-less motors. The valves are controlled by solinoids. Then they can have a motor with variable 'cam' profiles.

[Big Als Z28]

GM has OHC engines.
Ecotec engines along with the new HF V6's and the Northstar V8's that make great power.
As for getting rid of push-rods forever? Why? They can make equal or greater power, can get equal or better mpg, and save about $800 to 1k on each car made with an OHV engine.
Not to mention weight and size savings. Cars like Caddy and Buick, yes use the new HF V6's and Northstar engines.
Also, GM is making major advances in OHV design making 3v heads and VVT a possiblity in the very near future.

As far as the cam-less engine, that is some time away. Cars will need to go to a 42+volt electrial system to handle that kind of power draw.

And the Hemi is pushrod motor, as is the Viper V10. Not to mention that the C5R motor and CTS-VR motor is also Pushrod.
Saleen S7 also uses a pushrod motor. Dodge is taking the Hemi to the next level with a 6.1 liter hemi and a V10 Hemi in the future.

[Seifer]

why would they ever get rid of pushrod technology? in my opinion from a performance standpoint you cant beat it in large displacement applications.

Also the thing i love about general motors is the fact that they try to hold onto their heritage.

Unlike ford, they understand that their smallblock v8's were probably the most popular things they ever made. They want to continue that tradition unlike ford going to the 4.6 mod motors.

I hate dohc and ohc.. i will not buy one of those motors for any kind of performance application. I would rather buy a used car with a pushrod motor than a newcar with this shitty overpriced heavy ass, oversized motors.

[jmd]

The front end of the Gen IV engines is a bit different than the Gen III. My prediction is that you will see chain drives on a IV in the next 2 years. Right now, the goals of power, emissions, etc. are 100% attainable with the carryover technology from the III, but using the IV, so they are giving themselves a buffer zone before they release the cammer IV engines.

That's my prediction.

Seifer,

They do it somewhat for NVH reasons. While I'm not a fan of 100% of the Ford Mod engines, you have to admit they are damned smooth at idle. Also, taking pushrods and cam out of the middle of the engine and putting them "external" to the rotating assy. gives some engine families bore / stroke combinations that wouldn't be as easily attained with a cam in the middle of the block.

We'll get used to working on the stuff, even though it is harder to work on.

I disagree with you that they want to continue the pushrod tradition. Two things motivate GM. Money and the ability to make more. Pushrods are an easy setup to engineer and use, and that's what they did. They gave themselves over 7 years to work on the cammer IV designs that aren't out yet.

-Matthew

[LS123]

I agree with jmd on one respect, MONEY! If GM could make it cheaper (OHV or OHC) and alot of it, that would be their goal.

[Carsnob]

Toyota MAY be coming out with a new pushrod motor in the future too. They are having to produce one to run in the Craftsman Truck series (or whatever?). I bet a variation of the motor will show up in a production vehicle (most likely the Tundra).

Also, as far as OHC configurations go there is a reason you don't see a lot of aftermarket heads for the 4.6. They are just too darn expensive/complex. All you can get to my knowledge is a port/polish job. Nothing like what is available for pushrod motors.

I personally would rather have a compact motor that may be slightly rough around the edges than a big heavy motor that is more "refined". Face it... a 4.6 DOHC would NOT fit under the hood of my vette, yet I could get a 7.0 liter pushrod motor in there easy and STILL have room for a couple turbo's if wanted them (and had 50k lying around).

[LS1MONSTER]

GM is not going to stop making something thats cheap to produce. haha I think they just don't know how to make a cheap reliable DOHC/OHC engine like the other car companies..:o Push rods are geat.. until they bend.....:cool:

[NBMWSsix]

Originally posted by LS1MONSTER
GM is not going to stop making something thats cheap to produce. haha I think they just don't know how to make a cheap reliable DOHC/OHC engine like the other car companies..:o Push rods are geat.. until they bend.....:cool:


Still cheap and easy to replace with aftermarket ones.:p

[Big Als Z28]

Originally posted by LS1MONSTER
GM is not going to stop making something thats cheap to produce. haha I think they just don't know how to make a cheap reliable DOHC/OHC engine like the other car companies..:o Push rods are geat.. until they bend.....:cool:

OHC and Cheap dont go together. All OHC engines are expensive to make. And the ones they do make are some of the finest OHC engines in the world.
A turbo 2.2 liter Ion Redline did 215mph at bonniville salt flats, which beat out a turbo civic by some 30mph. And thats without VTECK. :rolleyes:
GM's Northstar 4.6 makes as much power as any other car out there.
Both are extreamly reliable.

[kgkern01]

GM did produce DOHC V8, it was called the LT5. ;) :cool: :drive:

[Smokey]

I would like to see GM putting something like this out. :D

http://www.coatesengine.com/eGallery/images/V-8engine.jpg

More on this link (http://www.coatesengine.com)

[Greystar]

Originally posted by kgkern01
GM did produce DOHC V8, it was called the LT5. ;) :cool: :drive:

Actually didn't Mercury Marine make this motor for GM?

[jmd]

Originally posted by Greystar
Actually didn't Mercury Marine make this motor for GM?

:yup:

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38177&perpage=1&pagenumber=44

Originally posted by NHRATA01
it was Lotus designed and Mercury Marine manufactured.

[LS1MONSTER]

Until GM can make a honest, good, reliable Inline 4 then people are still going to look somewhere else... Imports. I guess we will see if they can with their new line up. I haven't met one person that was truly happy with the relaiblity of their Cav or Saturn. That's where I think GM really lacks.. hell all the domestic car companies lack in is the small car market. Big whoop about the SRT-4 and SVT focus. They need to step it up a huge notch in the entire small car line up/market. Not everyone drives a truck! :yell:

[Big Als Z28]

GM's ecotec 4 cyl engines are actualy awesome and are picking up a lot of street cred.
And GM is releasing the Cobalt to replace the Cavi. Take a look at it, its pretty dam nice in and out.
The 2.0 SC motor thats all forged, the 2.2 that has proven itself to over 1k hp, and the brand new, VVT 2.4 170-175hp engine that will show up in the Solstice, G6, and Cobalt along with a few other cars are 3 awesome power plants.

[jmd]

Originally posted by LS1MONSTER
Until GM can make a honest, good, reliable Inline 4 then people are still going to look somewhere else... Imports. I guess we will see if they can with their new line up. I haven't met one person that was truly happy with the relaiblity of their Cav or Saturn. That's where I think GM really lacks.. hell all the domestic car companies lack in is the small car market. Big whoop about the SRT-4 and SVT focus. They need to step it up a huge notch in the entire small car line up/market. Not everyone drives a truck! :yell:

Your point of view is interesting. I imagine that due to gas prices in your area, a smaller car makes good sense for you.

I noticed in an Impala thread in the BnG forum showed people who thought GM lacked in the mid-size market as well. :shrug:

As far as the Focus & Neon you mention, the point to remember is that the larger / higher priced vehicles have a larger profit margin. Ford would rather sell 5,000 Town Cars than 20,000 Escorts for a reason for example. And GM, as long as they can profit a hell of a lot off the truck market, will be happy to ignore the smaller car market.

-Matthew

[LS1MONSTER]

I understand what your saying also. But in order for them to be able to sell these larger and higher priced vehicles they have to sell a certian amount of smaller gas friendly cars.... to meet CAFE regulations. But if Dogde has to sell X amount of Neons before they can sell 1 Viper.. they should think of up-ing the quality and relaiblity of their smaller car market. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing the Domestic car companies.. I've worked on plenty of Cav's/sunfires, Escorts, and Neon. They are just poorly made in general. I can't say anything for the Focus or SRT-4.. never touched em. I love GM.. And I really hope the Colbalt will work out and give some competition.. instead of being a rental car.
...:rolleyes:

Danny

[Dusty]

Originally posted by LS1MONSTER
Until GM can make a honest, good, reliable Inline 4 then people are still going to look somewhere else... Imports.

Quad 4! Ecotec! Ford 2.3/2.3T! Shelby I,II,III,IV! SRT4!

I'm waiting for Honda and Toyota to come out with a great, reliable I-4!!!

Oh, that's right, we'll just fall in love with the new Civic Si and it's whopping 117 foot pounds of torque at 6000 rpm. Or the over-priced under-torqued RSX-S and Celica GT-S (both barely outpowering a base-model Cavalier for $10,000 more). Or the famed oil-burning mitsu engines with 200+ reasons for recall per car. Nissan Sentra SE-R? I wouldn't touch a Sentra with a stick.

GM put a 4 banger in the cav/sun and acheivas for years that was considered one of the most reliable engines of all time. All cavaliers/sunfires are shit, but the drivetrains never were. Cheap cars are all crappy, including imports. I can snap a Honda B16 valvecover bolt in my fingers. I have a strong feeling the "Tuner" market is going to be turned upside down by the Ion Redline and Cobalt SS. In a year V8 owners are going to get sick and tired of being beaten by J-bodies at the track. It's going to be really common. And they're going to get better gas mileage than all of us.

I own and drive both a Camaro and an DOHC Ecotec Cav. Let me tell you, I am deeply impressed by both. But the Eco is just a little more impressive even though it's not a 300hp V8.

The only hot little import motor right now, comes from Subaru and is a boxer.

As far as the rental car comment, I haven't seen too many fleet corporations buying up overpriced imports. Almost all fleet cars are domestic. They are inexpensive and reliable. And it is just good practice to buy American. It makes American cars more affordable and better quality. I'd be happier to rent a domestic. I used to work on the fleet cars at a car rental company in Tampa, FL. We had many Nissan Sentras and they were oil burning garbage cans.

Not trying to argue with you. I just think you fail to realize the impact domestic 4 bangers have made on the market. I manage over 30 18-24 year olds in my office. Trust me, the kids are fed up with the lack of real potential in the current import line-up.

[/rant]

Big Al knows what's going on...

:drive:

[85gts]

ummmm...in case you don't know. toyota's have been in the business of making TONS of reliable 4 cyl. the 20r, 22r, 22re, 2t, 3t, 3sgte...and others.

don't get me wrong...i love chevy. practically preach the shit...lol. but there are lots of 4's the toyota has made. i have one.

[Dusty]

Originally posted by 85gts
ummmm...in case you don't know. toyota's have been in the business of making TONS of reliable 4 cyl. the 20r, 22r, 22re, 2t, 3t, 3sgte...and others.

don't get me wrong...i love chevy. practically preach the shit...lol. but there are lots of 4's the toyota has made. i have one.

Oh, I agree Toyota has some damn fine ones. I was just ranting on the misinformed hate for the Jbody.

[Constrictor]

Originally posted by LS123
I think GM is the only BIG car company that uses pushrod technology on performance vehicles.

You've obviously never heard of the Dodge Viper or seen any of those commercials on TV about that newfangled creation called the Hemi. Oh, and you've probably never heard of NASCAR either, have you. I guess Toyota must not qualify as a BIG car company because they just developed a new pushrod race motor.

I guess you're right.

[Goat LuvR]

A friend of mine had been working on a hydaulic valve body for a GM Gen-V cam-less engine. They have been put on hold recently... wonder why??? It might be because they will go with a celanoid controlled valve like someone mentioned earlier in this thread???

And as far as the 8,6,4 motors like the older Caddies got, the new Dodge Magnum (Hemi model) is running something similar now. ;)

[Joe Anstett]

Originally posted by LS1MONSTER
Big whoop about the SRT-4 and SVT focus. They need to step it up a huge notch in the entire small car line up/market. Not everyone drives a truck! :yell:

The Japanese learned this a long time ago. Get 'em while they're young, and sell them more expensive cars later.

The guys buying $60k Lexus today are the ones who bought CVCCs and Corollas in the early 80s. The kids driving Civics today are going to be driving Acuras tomorrow.

[SlowLX]

Originally posted by Seifer
why would they ever get rid of pushrod technology? in my opinion from a performance standpoint you cant beat it in large displacement applications.

Also the thing i love about general motors is the fact that they try to hold onto their heritage.

Unlike ford, they understand that their smallblock v8's were probably the most popular things they ever made. They want to continue that tradition unlike ford going to the 4.6 mod motors.

I hate dohc and ohc.. i will not buy one of those motors for any kind of performance application. I would rather buy a used car with a pushrod motor than a newcar with this shitty overpriced heavy ass, oversized motors.

Funny since Ford's mod motors are currently making more power than Gen III's on untouched heads. Now you can argue that the modular has been around longer, but that doesn't change facts. More airflow = more power. It's as simple as that, doesn't matter where you put the cam in that equation