3rd gens??

[2wice]

friend of mine is looking to buy a 90 camaro rs, so it'll have the l98 engine w/ tpi...i think, i dont know much about third gens at all which is why im asking you guys. he wants to know what kind of 1/4 times he can expect, power, and response to mods. he has found a real clean red one for a good price, and just wants to know more about it. i know someone on here has a white iroc-z, its in the members gallery. it looks real cool, and i saw he went low 14's stock...even though he only put down 214 hp, but 300+ lb-ft of torque STOCK. so any help is appreciated guys thanks

[2wice]

my fault he said its the 305 5.0 engine in it:)

[blackstripes]

yea, the RS is TBI not TPI, and they're pretty much dogs from what I remember. I had a 92 RS once that had a V6 and my buddy had the 305 TBI and it was pretty weak. Try and find a 91-92 Z28 with the L98 (350ci).

[LT1 Formy]

RS's have the TBI engine, tell him to save for an LT1 they're pretty cheap now ;)

[jmd]

Moving to L98 technical forum.

[LT1 Formy]

Originally posted by blackstripes
yea, the RS is TBI not TPI, and they're pretty much dogs from what I remember. I had a 92 RS once that had a V6 and my buddy had the 305 TBI and it was pretty weak. Try and find a 91-92 Z28 with the L98 (350ci).

:werd: those are the best 3rd gens

[2wice]

i could have swore i made this post but i cant find it...

anyway my friend wants to buy a 1990 camaro rs with the 305 engine. he wants to know the performance and hp numbers on a stock one. he found a beautiful red one at a good price, and as i don't know much about 3rd gens i thought you guys could help. whats the diff between this one and an iroc-z? i saw someone in the members gallery that had an iroc-z that only put down 214 hp, but 300+ lb ft of torque and ran low 14's stock. any help is appreciated guys:drive:

[SilverTransAm]

the engine is crap. if the body is good, and the paint is nice, tell him to get it as cheap as possible and drop in a zz4 or an ls1.

seriously, the 305 tbi is probably one of the worst v8's ever

[ill deuce]

tbi 305/170hp.
tpi 305/230hp.
tpi 350/245hp.,but with 345ft/lbs.

[scottyboost]

Originally posted by SilverTransAm
the engine is crap. if the body is good, and the paint is nice, tell him to get it as cheap as possible and drop in a zz4 or an ls1.

seriously, the 305 tbi is probably one of the worst v8's ever

:werd:

305 Throttle body was the low-end V8. I don't remember exactly, but my guess is around 175hp. This was available in RS trim and in earlier Z28's (mid-80's maybe)

305 Tuned port injection - ~205hp, maybe 215. Base motor for Iroc-Z.

350 Tuned port Injection - ~235hp, maxed to 245 just before the LT1 in 1993. Came with automatic transmission only.

HP ratings on the TPI motors also fluctuated based on a second Catalytic converter option. This gave it 245hp on the 350.

[Rob Almighty]

I had a '92 RS with the 305 TBI engine...a pathetic 170 HP.


STAY AWAY.

[2wice]

damn so i guess i should tel him forget the rs and go for an iroc??? if i were him i would def drop in a big cube engine or ls1, but i think he wants the tpi

[SilverTransAm]

Originally posted by 2wice
damn so i guess i should tel him forget the rs and go for an iroc??? if i were him i would def drop in a big cube engine or ls1, but i think he wants the tpi

hmm, tpi isn't that great either. i know, i had a 91 l98. lots of power down low, but runs out of breath real fast. mostly because of the way the tpi intake manifold is designed.

i mean, it's a genI sbc, so there's billions of aftermarket parts for it, but for the cost of rebuilding an engine, especially one thats 12+ years old (not to mention the fact that most third gens were heavily beat on by their owners), you might as well just put in a new one.

[2wice]

well i msure he'll be on here reading and maybe can chime in about his preferences if he registers

(hint hint albert):cool:

[Anomaly]

Probably be best to pull the 305 and put a good engine in it.

It's hard to find one with a good body and paint job.

[triggerjerk]

I'd rather have a high mile lt1 than a comparable tpi car.
Unless i was gonna drop a bbc in the third gen.:D

[jmd]

If you have the ability, there's not much to swapping the LB9 parts out for L98 parts. The wiring changes are minimal (basically change the engine harness for a TPI one) and then there's intake / engine (the LB9 heads are not good for perf.) and then you'd need to change the fuel pump to one for a port EFI car.

[jmd]

Originally posted by 2wice
i could have swore i made this post but i cant find it...

http://www.ls2.com/forums/images/top_search.gif before posting things "2wice."

:)

[SilverTransAm]

Originally posted by jmd
If you have the ability, there's not much to swapping the LB9 parts out for L98 parts. The wiring changes are minimal (basically change the engine harness for a TPI one) and then there's intake / engine (the LB9 heads are not good for perf.) and then you'd need to change the fuel pump to one for a port EFI car.

[SilverTransAm]

Originally posted by jmd
If you have the ability, there's not much to swapping the LB9 parts out for L98 parts. The wiring changes are minimal (basically change the engine harness for a TPI one) and then there's intake / engine (the LB9 heads are not good for perf.) and then you'd need to change the fuel pump to one for a port EFI car.

the lb9 is the TPI 305, the rs got the TBI 305, the L03 i believe, that's why i suggested a motor swap.

[norcalz28]

Originally posted by scottyboost
:werd:


305 Tuned port injection - ~205hp, maybe 215. Base motor for Iroc-Z.



The base model motor for all 85-87 IROCs was the LG4 and for all 88-90 IROCs it was the L03. TPI was still an option that had to be checked... It wasn't until 91-92 that the Z28 got the sole rights to the TPI technology.

And third gens are not that bad, but most of them now adays are going to be some kind of project, unless you find a super nice, all original example. And then it will probably run a pretty penny. I say if hes got a love the car, go for it, but it might not be worth it to him if hes not gonna be totally happy with it. If you wanna go fast out of the box, save for an LS1. Everyone knows the TPI's are gonna need a bit of work to get them breathing right.

Will

[Redballboy]

i picked up an l98 for 1000 dollars last august its an 87 iroc 350 TPI. all it has done is removed emissions and a shift kit and let me tell you that car has some good balls. but on the other hand yes all the 305's are bad for modding they dont react very well the best bet if he wants a thirdgen is to find an iroc with a 350 or any other one for cheap and drop an l98/lt1/zz4 in it any of those engines would be fine. if you have any more questions go to www.thirdgen.org they will be pretty helpful for you

[89FormulaLS2]

Drop in the LS1.

Last year, I bought an 89 Firebird Formula 350. It came with the TPI (l98) engine, but needed some TLC. The engine is tired after 156,000 miles. Needs paint BAD. Sloppy front end, cracked spoiler, no cats/exhaust - needed a lot of work.

After checking into the repair costs, I decided the LS1 was the only way to go.

By fall, my car will be complete. I'll have over 400 rwhp running from a 2001 LS1 with heads/cam mods & tuning, a 6 speed tranny, and it will be EMISSIONS LEGAL!!

3rd Gens make GREAT project cars - by the time I'm done, I'll have under $12K into this car, and it'll be like it was when it was new - only BETTER. Sure, I could've save a few thousand $$$ and just rebuilt the original V8 - but if you're gonna put in the kind of money it takes to restore a 3rd gen car, why stop short by putting in old technology for the powerplant? For that kind of money, you want to be able to KICK SOME ASS!!!



:drive: :redta: :kneel:

[norcalz28]

Yep, planning the same thing, eventually... The prices for LS1 motor and tranny combos is getting rediculously cheap. I think alot of guys are gonna start throwin em in there soon!

Will

[parad0x177]

The 305 isn't a bad motor, per se, but it is pretty weak in stock form and is ultimately limited by its bore size. Plus, it probably has very low (numerically) gearing for improved fuel economy. (It's probably got a 2.73 rear with an open-differential.)

But, the TBI 305 can be improved quite a bit with some mods. And, you could always swap the 305 for a 350 (while using the TBI induction system) and have even more potential.

However, at the same time, you could spend a little more and come up with a TPI car and have a better baseline with better potential, dollar for dollar, when you started modifying it.

Good luck!

[norcalz28]

IMHO, you could get alot more out of an LG4 than an L03. Stock TBI is crap, where as a Quadrajet, flows a ton and those secondaries are HUGE. I would go carb any day over TBI. Just my .02 cents

[CAR Motorsports]

Check out this link for some pretty good paint jobs on some pretty special 3rd gens. Lots of 3rd gen accessories available at CAR Motorsports.

http://www.carmotorsports.com/richtta.htm

[Kal-El]

do the LS1 awap if he likes that body, they are sweet but the engine blows.

[murphy80]

I think it doesn't matter which one you buy TBI or TPI, it will not be fast in stock form. Now there maybe a few lucky ones out there that got a quick one, but they are rare. I say if you want a 3rd gen just make sure to get one with a good body, interior, paint, and (the most important part) for the least amount of money. You can always change the drivetrain out. I would suggest getting a RS because they are usually cheaper than Z28 or Irocs and I would say to get one in the 1990-92 year range(they have the better dash and steering wheel). Then I would say save up and do the LS1 swap. You can put a stock LS1 in there and still be faster and produce more power than a modified TPI or TBI. You may think the LS1 swap is alot of money, but trust me in the long run it will be cheaper. Upgrading a TPI or TBI will add up quick and you will be limited. Just to give you an example I have 1992 RS with 350 TBI and I have about $6,000 in upgrades and have only ran low 14's - high 13's. If I would have known it would rack up that amount of money, I would have put the LS1 in it from the get go. Well good luck in what you choose.

[roachjuice]

Originally posted by Redballboy
i picked up an l98 for 1000 dollars last august its an 87 iroc 350 TPI. all it has done is removed emissions and a shift kit and let me tell you that car has some good balls. but on the other hand yes all the 305's are bad for modding they dont react very well the best bet if he wants a thirdgen is to find an iroc with a 350 or any other one for cheap and drop an l98/lt1/zz4 in it any of those engines would be fine. if you have any more questions go to www.thirdgen.org they will be pretty helpful for you
its funny you should say that 305's are bad for mods.... the 87 350 tpi came with 15 more hp than the 85 305 tpi that had 215 thats not that much i have beaten plenty of 91 92 z28 350 tpi cars..... there not all that quick... there is more potential for a 350 but the 305 wasn't much different..... oh and i think i have ya beat on the price thing i paid 800 bucks for mine and it has all the free mods 3:42's stock and great paint.....:2guns:

[zsb383]

I have owned five third gen camaros. An 84 Z, 89 IROC, and three 91 Zs. I have two of them now. My street car is the white on with a 350. It was a tpi but now its got a stealth ram. It runs 12.60s on motor and a best of 11.32 on the bottle. I put a 3000 vigilante, 1 3/4 hooker super comps, and a mufflex 4in catback since. I hope to run in the high 11s on motor now. A tpi motor can do almost every thing an ls1 can and as much as a lt1 if you put the right parts on. If your buddy wants a thrid gen tell him to make a decision. How fast does he want to go and how much money does he have to go that fast. If he is not dead set on a third gen and just wants to go fast with little money tell him to get a ls1 car. A third gen will take a little work but will run with the best of them. If he is serious pm me and I will tell you eveything I got and what worked and what did not. STAY AWAY FROM TBI! Junk! Got a buddy with a hard head and got a 91 tbi rs. He spent about $2500 on it and it is not much faster. I guess about a mid 16 sec car.

[Johnny_Pappis]

man my freind had a iroc with 305 tpi and i had a freind with a 305 tbi BIG diffrence bolth dogs they really got nothing on n l98 but if its a good body and ur goin with a diffrent motor why the hell not

[Iroc-Z89]

Not really, the TPI305 isn't as bad as said depending upon factory options. I have one, as rated the G92/N10 optioned cars when stock have just as much horsepower as the stock 350 L98. Only the L98 has 30 more lbs. of torque. The numbers quoted for the L98 with 245hp and 345tq are for the G92 L98 optioned cars. Though your are correct that lower 305's whether auto. TPI or LG4/L03/L69 have nothing on the high end tpi's.

Also the about, g92 cars the 305 has 3.45s, 350's have 3.23's on a borg warner 9 bolt(7.75"). Though driveshafts can range form the 1LE Aluminum to the standard cast iron. Generally most of the high end camaros also came with the touring suspension as opposed to the soft ride that came standard on most Rally Sports.
Later 3rd gens had the benefits and losses of having to use old corvette parts, resulting in a ugly engine bay. Any comments.. Yes 90',91' and 92' 305's and 350's have slightly higher torque and horsepower ratings though very little changed on the engines except the G92 option became a standard.

[2000Z14X2]

Guess i'll chime in as well.

I have been contemplating an 85 IROC with the 305 A4.

Don't know a whole lot about it. The owner will be sending me some info this evening. It is "Yellow" perfect body, no rust.

I once had an 89 IROC that i special ordered back in 88.
L98 T5 342's...... In retrospect i wish i would have kept that car.
It was black with the silver decals and tourquoise trim. :cool:

It did not have the Z28 emblems, it had the IROC.

What a car!!
I could kick myself for selling it. :mad:

Oh well, i am getting the 3rd gen fever again. I have done everything that i can do to my 2000 LS1.

need a new toy. Are the yellow cars rare?
Thanks.

[zman1969]

Originally posted by LT1 Formy
:werd: those are the best 3rd gens
BEST third gen would be 89 turbo trans am's!!

[Iroc-Z89]

Originally posted by 2000Z14X2
Guess i'll chime in as well.

I once had an 89 IROC that i special ordered back in 88.
L98 T5 342's...... In retrospect i wish i would have kept that car.
It was black with the silver decals and tourquoise trim. :cool:

It did not have the Z28 emblems, it had the IROC.

What a car!!
I could kick myself for selling it. :mad:

Thanks.

:bs:

Well, I am gonna have to rip this apart... The L98 was never mated by GM to a T-5. If you could have proved it you would need paper work. Mostly because the car would be worth a few hundred grand. The T-5 can be snapped by the LB9 305. There were a few test cars with them but they were destroyed. Oh in 1989 it was 3.45's. I could believe that you had a 305 car and dropped in an L98.

[350TPI]

How come no one has mentioned the other side of the coin,the firebird.You could also get a nice 350 formula,T/A or GTA for the same price as an iroc.ALso,i would like to mention that i had an 88 LB9 5 speed iroc and that thing would haul.I beat many 4.6 and 5.0 GTs in that car with a few bolt on mods.I ended up putting in an L98 and then a superrammed 409.The last motor eventually killed the poor T5......go figure;)

[95LT4Z]

Originally posted by scottyboost
[B350 Tuned port Injection - ~235hp, maxed to 245 just before the LT1 in 1993. Came with automatic transmission only.

[/B]
not true a few of them in 88 and 89 were made with the t-5... not very many but a few... my dads 88 iroc-z was made that way.. my dad bought it from the dealer hauled ass down the road and hit a police officer.... 3 months later he got it out of impound... 3 months later he gt it back from the shop...

[jmd]

Originally posted by 95LT4Z
not true a few of them in 88 and 89 were made with the t-5... not very many but a few... my dads 88 iroc-z was made that way.. my dad bought it from the dealer hauled ass down the road and hit a police officer.... 3 months later he got it out of impound... 3 months later he gt it back from the shop...

GM never emission certified the L98 with a manual trans in the f-body. Zero were sold to the public. :sorry: but no your Dads was not.

[Juiced2000SS]

Just sold my 1986 IROC, swapped the 305 for a 383 using a 91 B4C block, LPE superram, 219 cam, SDPC vette heads, A4 w/ Vigilante 3200, 3.42 rear. Tons of torque still no top end ran good though. Oh, and GM never did an L98w/T5.

[Chaotic Firebird]

Actually, if he has some money, he could pull the TBI motor and drop in a crate motor with a carb. Get rid of the computer all together.