Putting a LS1 into a turd gen. How long do you think NLP should take?

[dingleberry]

I dropped my car of at Next Level Performance(formorly Norris Motorsports) on about Feb 8th 2006. Now granted I did have to scroung up some parts like I had to snag a LS1 gas tank (took 2 days) I had to get an A/C compressor (3 days) and a few other random parts (say max of 10 days). Seeing as how today is the 15 and tomorrow the 16th, you think they would have it done? Nope.

They are still waiting to hook up the radiator hoses, all the guages, the throttle cable, and make and install the custom exhaut pipe from the manifold to the existing exhaust.

They have been working on the front harness (the front harness was for a formula so they are removing all the connectors and wires that were for the electric lights) for ~5 hours so far just to strip out the electric light connections from the front harness and they are still not done.

They have all the parts required to finish the job in hand right now, so as far as I am concerned the clock is ticking. They won't have it done tomorrow or friday, and I doubt even monday. The one mechanic working on my car has been pulled of multiple times (even almost all day tuesday) to put out "fires" as they say.

Grr, I want my car and I want it soon! :2guns:
/rant

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/139/139825/folders/112544/1846690camaro.JPG


May 6th, 2006, 87 days and the project has been returned to owner and now back at home for continued alterations.

[ill deuce]

a average person-couple days

a shop-it'll be a nice summer ride

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by ill deuce
a average person-couple days

a shop-it'll be a nice summer ride

Lol yea, I do get the feeling they are milking it. :mad:

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Is Gary working on it:think:

[dingleberry]

Nope, uhm, Tyler I believe(The guy who left to go work at a GM dealship to get experiance :eek: ). Must be a noob, I should get an hourly discount for him scratching his head. This is not an easy project that's for sure.

[jmd]

Originally posted by dingle
They have been working on the front harness (the front harness was for a formula so they are removing all the connectors and wires that were for the electric lights) for ~5 hours so far just to strip out the electric light connections from the front harness and they are still not done.

And you would be? :lol:

Don't rush a custom job or it will be rushed. Wiring is a hassle.

[1995blacktattop]

reminds me of the time a shop took 4 fucking weeks to change out the HEADGASKETS on my 93 thunderbird SC..

4 weeks just for the damn headgaskets :rolleyes:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by jmd
And you would be? :lol:

Don't rush a custom job or it will be rushed. Wiring is a hassle.

Yea, but they are just removing excess wiring becuase there isn't a whole lot of spare room. If they were doing something difficult I could see them taking their time to get it right (like wiring up the guages), but when I first talked to them he said oh it will probably take about three hours. So it's two hours past that and still not done. Hmm :think:

[Johnny_Pappis]

best thing i can tell is stay on there ass about it

[DvBoard]

hope you already have a price and it's not costing ya more $$$ per day. if so they are milking ya most likely and not putting it as a top priority.

[eboggs_jkvl]

I think I'd ask for hourly autits on the work. Just saying I spent 6 hourds on it won't cut it. What did you get done in 6 hours? The otiginal estimates should hold true to wothin 10%. If they said it'll take 5 hours, then 6 hours is all they should charge if not the original 5 hours as listed. Paying for someone to learn on your car is not what was bargained.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
I think I'd ask for hourly autits on the work. Just saying I spent 6 hourds on it won't cut it. What did you get done in 6 hours? The otiginal estimates should hold true to wothin 10%. If they said it'll take 5 hours, then 6 hours is all they should charge if not the original 5 hours as listed. Paying for someone to learn on your car is not what was bargained.

What original estimates, they couldn't provide anything other than a 6k-10k bill. :confused:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by DvBoard
hope you already have a price and it's not costing ya more $$$ per day. if so they are milking ya most likely and not putting it as a top priority.

Not per day, but per hour they work on the car, and that is on their honesty. :badpost:

[Checkmate]

I wouldn't expect it over night as putting an ls1 into any other than what it was intented for requires a lot of custom work. But if you were given a set date, I would expect them to honor their word and have it done on or as close to that date as possible. :)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Checkmate
I wouldn't expect it over night as putting an ls1 into any other than what it was intented for requires a lot of custom work. But if you were given a set date, I would expect them to honor their word and have it done on or as close to that date as possible. :)

Well, I wouldn't be getting upset if they showed that they wanted to get it done. They keep pulling the one guy off of mine to work on others. I had to wait on a list just to get it in there. Plus if that guy calls in sick the car just sits there. I want my baby back! (ribs) :help:

[02RedWS6TA]

Originally posted by dingle
What original estimates, they couldn't provide anything other than a 6k-10k bill. :confused:

Please tell me you're not paying 6-10k to put an LS1 into an 82 camaro? :(

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by 02RedWS6TA
Please tell me you're not paying 6-10k to put an LS1 into an 82 camaro? :(

Yes I am. blame eboggs he put me up to it.


That's not including parts

:wall:

[ETID]

DAMN
6-10k?!
:wtf:


you could have done it by yourself for the price of a couple headaches. :story:

[KlayBuRn]

Or done it yourself and bought another sweet third gen :p

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Converge
DAMN
6-10k?!
:wtf:


you could have done it by yourself for the price of a couple headaches. :story:

No, I couldn't have, I don't have the tools nor the workspace to do an undertaking like that.

[eboggs_jkvl]

I think they might be milking this a little. The price for the hours can't be that high. Are you including the engine and parts you had to buy in the price?


D:)

[DvBoard]

for 6k-10k you could have bought the f'in tools and be done already. or hell i've been on spring break this week, i could have figured it out by now :o .

[Mike Hawk]

Any reason on sticking to a 83?

I'd think 91/92 would be a better year, not as 'outdated'.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Mike 01Hawk
Any reason on sticking to a 83?

I'd think 91/92 would be a better year, not as 'outdated'.


Yea, he owns the 83.

[Mike Hawk]

Well dur :p

I guess from my pov I'd rather have a newer 3rd gen.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
I think they might be milking this a little. The price for the hours can't be that high. Are you including the engine and parts you had to buy in the price?


D:)

They havn't given me a final price, as they are not done yet. On 2/28 the bill was ~$3200

[ill deuce]

go pick your shit up man

[mingoman]

That is called raking you over the coals man.
Go get your shit and take it to someone who is trustworthy.

[wheel junky]

heh heh,,,guess who the 83 belonged to before dingle got a hold of it...
sounds like some body is takin way long to get the job done

[dingleberry]

well, it looks like it won't get done this week either.
http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=366037

[jmd]

Status?

Was your car originally 5spd?

[eboggs_jkvl]

Was a 5, now it's a T56.

NLP has decided NOT to work on it this week. They have no status, no prospects and really don't want to talk about it this week. Something more important has come up.


This is not the way to maintain a high reputation for good work and due diligence to task. If the "worker" is not available, then someone else should be assigned. The project waited in line, others can wait in line now as all of the parts are there. The car can be done in 3 days if THEY WORK ON IT.

[Carsnob]

That reminds me of the shop that put the headers on my corvette. Took a week! Never done it before apparently and didn't read the directions. They tried to bill me over $700 for the install. I refused to pay for him to learn how. I ended up walking out of there with about a $5xx bill. I was pissed, and asked not to bring my car back (like they had to worry about that), but at least I didn't get completely ripped off - just a little.

And I would have done it, but I lived in an apt. at the time and they required welding anyway.

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Was a 5, now it's a T56.

NLP has decided NOT to work on it this week. They have no status, no prospects and really don't want to talk about it this week. Something more important has come up.


This is not the way to maintain a high reputation for good work and due diligence to task. If the "worker" is not available, then someone else should be assigned. The project waited in line, others can wait in line now as all of the parts are there. The car can be done in 3 days if THEY WORK ON IT.

Time to find a different shop. I've dealt with shit like that before...its such a pain in the ass.

Hopefully you have or know someone who has a truck/trailer...

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Was a 5, now it's a T56.

NLP has decided NOT to work on it this week. They have no status, no prospects and really don't want to talk about it this week. Something more important has come up.


This is not the way to maintain a high reputation for good work and due diligence to task. If the "worker" is not available, then someone else should be assigned. The project waited in line, others can wait in line now as all of the parts are there. The car can be done in 3 days if THEY WORK ON IT.

Yea I talked to them today, the guy working on my car was gone monday, sqeezed in a few hours tues and supposedly worked on it all day today but has only worked on the wiring, installed new battery cable, and futzing around with the alignment of A/c bracket, currently working on adjusting the length of the throttle cable and will work more on the A/C bracket tomorrow (maybe shim it) because they say it is throwing the belt off when they crank the engine.

Yea that's right, they dared to crank the engine a month and a half after they've had it. :rolleyes:

The guy on my car wil be out thursday for sure and I'm almost sure something will come up friday. :help: So this week at the MOST they will have worked on it is 2 1/2 days. That's provide he put a full day in today and friday.

I'm talking directly to Mike (owner) tomorrow morning to get some of this straightend out, if I'm not happy I am heading to ls1tech to start a "shitty service thread" over there.

[JohnnyLS2]

Um, $10K not including parts for put an LS1 into a 3rd gen. Dude, that is a big mistake. :o

But, atleast it will be unique.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28
Um, $10K not including parts for put an LS1 into a 3rd gen. Dude, that is a big mistake. :o

But, atleast it will be unique.

A) Not your money.

B) Not your car.

C) Not your call.

D) I need to discuss the price listed and what it involves, not you. I don't have the breakdown in front of me, so I may just call him and ask.


But, thank you for your comments.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28
Um, $10K not including parts for put an LS1 into a 3rd gen. Dude, that is a big mistake. :o

But, atleast it will be unique.

Some guys dump over a 100k into old car to restore them, or race them. What's the difference? :think:

[jmd]

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28
Um, $10K not including parts for put an LS1 into a 3rd gen. Dude, that is a big mistake. :o

But, atleast it will be unique.

:eek: And you're modding a 4th gen so your return on the dollar is somehow better?

I think not.

[ETID]

third gen with an ls1 = :drool:

[KlayBuRn]

Originally posted by Converge
third gen with an ls1 = :drool:

:werd:

:drool: if it woulda been 91-92z28 :drool:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Drool...


THink how the poor schmuck is going to feel when an 83 chews his ass up and spits it out on the curb. THis will be one bitchin sleeper.

[KlayBuRn]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Drool...


THink how the poor schmuck is going to feel when an 83 chews his ass up and spits it out on the curb. THis will be one bitchin sleeper.

Nothing is gonna beat the first beat down of that unsuspecting 4th gen driver :p

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Nothing is gonna beat the first beat down of that unsuspecting 4th gen driver :p


Well, to do that he need at least one more step and that would be rear gears. The stock 3.08s in there will give mid 30s on gas mileage but will bark big time on any effort to accelerate with speed. Gotta get something a little better in the bucket to be quick off the line.

[KlayBuRn]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Well, to do that he need at least one more step and that would be rear gears. The stock 3.08s in there will give mid 30s on gas mileage but will bark big time on any effort to accelerate with speed. Gotta get something a little better in the bucket to be quick off the line.

Ah, I was assuming since it was LS1 + T56 he would + 4th gen rear end as well...

[eboggs_jkvl]

Baby steps at first. Rome was not built in a day. As time goes on, so will parts.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Yo! D!


Update? It's Monday, time for another plethora of reasons...

Will this be the week or what?




E:)

[dingleberry]

The PCM I got from a guy on LS1tech is freaking dead. So now I gotta get another one. So lets sum up what was accomplished from thursday to today:

They shimmed the A/C bracket so the belt wouldn't come off.
They figured out the PCM is broke.
They got some hoses they ordered (no idea what hoses he was talking about)

Hooray! Now that is what I call progress! And no it won't be this week, I can almost guarantee that.

ME :bash: NLP

[dingleberry]

Good news, the PCM I bought from a guy on LS1tech is bad. I had to buy another. Though I did get one from a sponser on LS!tech for $85 shipped.

Stay tuned.... Same bat channel, same bat time...

[MagicMan]

Great project

[eboggs_jkvl]

The New PCM has passed the "Am I alive" test. They will try for a "run" on Friday.


E:)

[02 WS6 TA]

:rolleyes: E and E Junior, you know who you shoulda called...T56 Busters! :D

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by 02 WS6 TA
:rolleyes: E and E Junior, you know who you shoulda called...T56 Busters! :D

WTF is that? :think: lol

[eboggs_jkvl]

Gotta go with the flow when travis is getting creative. It took me years to make sense of half of what he says. I ask Tiff for translations on the rest.

E:)

[eboggs_jkvl]

:cough: ????

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
:cough: ????

Can't get a hold of him, I have called three times, first he was with a customer, second no one at the shop even answered, third he was somewhere on a testdrive (was it my car? who knows). I told Tom to have him call the house and leave a message with the status. :shrug: I know it aint ready and I have to pick it up on a saturday so maybe, JSUT MAYBE next saturday. Though at the pace they have been working that would be pushing it. :o

[jmd]

Originally posted by 02 WS6 TA
:rolleyes: E and E Junior, you know who you shoulda called...T56 Busters! :D

Armando and myself? :huh:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by jmd
Armando and myself? :huh:


Stop trying to translate Travis!



Dingle... I assume that no phone contact was made from the Orlando area ICW the status.


Like did the damn thing run?
What's left?


Stuff like that.


E:)

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
A) Not your money.

I understand that.

B) Not your car.

You're right. I got rid of my 3rd gen when I was 17. ;)

C) Not your call.

Of course.

D) I need to discuss the price listed and what it involves, not you. I don't have the breakdown in front of me, so I may just call him and ask.

:confused:

I was saying that $10K for labor is a rip off. It will be unique and cool, just like Teri's 3rd gen LS1. However, it is a financial mistake unless he has money burning a hole in his pocket.

But, like you said.. it's not my money. I regret dumping $30K into my Z28... :yup:


But, thank you for your comments.

Thanks. :)

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by dingle
Some guys dump over a 100k into old car to restore them, or race them. What's the difference? :think:

Depends on what type of car. If its an old 'Cuda, Camaro (69, etc), Challenger, Corvette, etc. that is an INVESTMENT and they are badass.

You won't see a 3rd gen with an LS1 at a Barrett Jackson auto show. I think its a sweet idea for sure... but a shop to charge $10k for labor is fucking rediculous! For that price you could probably stuff a ZZ571 crate motor in there. :drool2:

Including the car.. I have about $55K into my Z28. I could sell it for $18K now.. if I am lucky.

I might end up selling it for $15k just so I can get something different. :hs:

Keep us updated!

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by jmd
:eek: And you're modding a 4th gen so your return on the dollar is somehow better?

I think not.

I didn't spend $10K on labor. The LABOR to build and install the motor into my car was $850.... $10k is getting bent over hard core.

I guess if I am going to piss my money away I try to do it as efficiently as possible. :yup: Whether its a 3rd gen or 4th gen it's going to cost a lot of money to build up. But, I was just pointing out the fact that the shop is taking FOREVER and RIPPING him off.

:)

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by Converge
third gen with an ls1 = :drool:

:yup:

Same thing with an LSX in an RX7. :yup:

[JohnnyLS2]

This is what I was referring to... or same type of concept.

http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/2ndGen.htm

LS1 mounting hardware for an RX7: $359
Custom driveshaft: $275
Cooling system: $640
Fuel system: $640
Wiring: $400
Speedo correction: $320
Hydrolic upgrade for 6sped cars (t56): $125
Battery relocation kit: $140

Conversion parts total: $2899

Turn-key installation for these cars are completed at a reduced rate. Labor for 2nd generation turn-key cars start at $1,750 plus any additional parts installation.

Conversion parts: $2899
Installation labor: $1750
LSX crate engine: $4500
T56 trannsmission: $1500

Grand Total: $10,649

Now, that is to put an LSX and 6 speed into a small ass Jap car. That is all parts, labor, etc. Obviously, if you want other performance parts it would be the same whether its an RX7 or a 3rd gen.

I would imagine its 5x harder to stuff an LSX engine into an RX7 than a 3rd gen. This is why I was saying he got "ripped off". I am all for performance, hyrbids, etc.

Not trying to hate... just trying to shed some light on people throwing money in the wrong direction. :)

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by dingle
The PCM I got from a guy on LS1tech is freaking dead. So now I gotta get another one. So lets sum up what was accomplished from thursday to today:

They shimmed the A/C bracket so the belt wouldn't come off.
They figured out the PCM is broke.
They got some hoses they ordered (no idea what hoses he was talking about)

Hooray! Now that is what I call progress! And no it won't be this week, I can almost guarantee that.

ME :bash: NLP

:sadnana:

[JohnnyLS2]

Are Eboggs and Dingle related? :confused: Serious question....

[eboggs_jkvl]

We went over this and It's 10K for everything, car, install, engine what's the big deal? People restore a Nash Rambler. It's still a nash and it's still a dog.


I match you in money dumped inbto the Z. I still have fun with the car and the 83 is going to be a "toy" too.


I'm getting ready to send Guido down there to NLP. Him and his violin case!

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28
Are Eboggs and Dingle related? :confused: Serious question....


Dingle's last name is Boggs. You draw the conclusion.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Might I simply ask.....



Drop it. Hindsight on any other kind of sight is immaterial right now. Leave it at the keyboard.

[eboggs_jkvl]

QUIT RAINING on the parade.


Go refurbish something so we can "praise" your skill, talent, and sharp economic acumen.

[Jamnutz]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Gotta go with the flow when travis is getting creative. It took me years to make sense of half of what he says. I ask Tiff for translations on the rest.

E:)


E - I've Been talking to Travis for maybe a little longer than you & I'm thinking that he's attempting to compare y'all to Mythbusters. ;)

[eboggs_jkvl]

I'm no Myth! I'm a Mythter!


Travis! You stop that kind of talk you hear me!?

[ramairetransam]

i want pics of the car dammit

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by ramairetransam
i want pics of the car dammit

That'll be Dingle's job. He's had the car for 9 years and I can't find any old pictures of it.

E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
That'll be Dingle's job. He's had the car for 9 years and I can't find any old pictures of it.

E:)

Uhh, the first post has a pic of the car :think:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28
This is what I was referring to... or same type of concept.

http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/2ndGen.htm

LS1 mounting hardware for an RX7: $359
Custom driveshaft: $275
Cooling system: $640
Fuel system: $640
Wiring: $400
Speedo correction: $320
Hydrolic upgrade for 6sped cars (t56): $125
Battery relocation kit: $140

Conversion parts total: $2899



Conversion parts: $2899
Installation labor: $1750
LSX crate engine: $4500
T56 trannsmission: $1500

Grand Total: $10,649

Now, that is to put an LSX and 6 speed into a small ass Jap car. That is all parts, labor, etc. Obviously, if you want other performance parts it would be the same whether its an RX7 or a 3rd gen.

I would imagine its 5x harder to stuff an LSX engine into an RX7 than a 3rd gen. This is why I was saying he got "ripped off". I am all for performance, hyrbids, etc.

Not trying to hate... just trying to shed some light on people throwing money in the wrong direction. :)

Wow, that is one helluva deal on labor. These guys are supposed to be real good, and it may not end up costing 10k. I bet I am 6k deep at least right now and it should almost be done.

Hindsight, yea, probably a bad idea investment wise, but there are special circumstances surrounding this that not everyone is privy too. ;)

[KlayBuRn]

Who gives a fuck, its Dingle's money and his car let him do what the fuck he wants to do, thats what makes people different from anyone else...


Keep us updated...

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Who gives a fuck, its Dingle's money and his car let him do what the fuck he wants to do, thats what makes people different from anyone else...


Keep us updated...


:werd:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Who gives a fuck, its Dingle's money and his car let him do what the fuck he wants to do, thats what makes people different from anyone else...


Keep us updated...

Will do, shit if they got the exhaust done and installed all the hoses I don't know what they have left to do except tune the fucker. I will definitely keep you guys apprised of the situation. :xfings:

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
We went over this and It's 10K for everything, car, install, engine what's the big deal? People restore a Nash Rambler. It's still a nash and it's still a dog.


I match you in money dumped inbto the Z. I still have fun with the car and the 83 is going to be a "toy" too.


I'm getting ready to send Guido down there to NLP. Him and his violin case!

If its $10k for everything that is a little more realistic. :) His posts were misleading... or my comprehension skills sucked at the time. :o

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Dingle's last name is Boggs. You draw the conclusion.

How was I supposed to know. I thought you were his personal assitant or something. ;)

Updates?

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Who gives a fuck, its Dingle's money and his car let him do what the fuck he wants to do, thats what makes people different from anyone else...

Keep us updated...

That is well established and I understand that. What would happen if I told people I was spending $40,000 on a 1999 Z28 that was bone stock... think it would go over nicely? :rotfl:

I am excited to see the final product for sure. :)

[QWIKLS1]

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28
If its $10k for everything that is a little more realistic. :) His posts were misleading... or my comprehension skills sucked at the time. :o

I'd think anyone that would spend $20-25K to rebuild a forged stock cube LS1 motor to put into an '01Z that runs 12's doesn't have a whole lot of room to criticize. :)

We all spend too much money on our damn cars. :2guns:

That's what makes it fun. :wiggle:

[Get Shorty]

Originally posted by Ole
I'd think anyone that would spend $20-25K to rebuild a forged stock cube LS1 motor to put into an '01Z that runs 12's doesn't have a whole lot of room to criticize. :)


Who in the fuck would pay over $20k for a forged stock cube LS1?!? :boggled:

Someone got raped on that deal... :(

[QWIKLS1]

Originally posted by Get Shorty
Who in the fuck would pay over $20k for a forged stock cube LS1?!? :boggled:

Someone got raped on that deal... :(

Well...

I won't name names, to protect the innocent, but he's posted in this thread. :secret:

[Get Shorty]

Originally posted by Ole
Well...

I won't name names, to protect the innocent, but he's posted in this thread. :secret:

Whoops... :o

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28
How was I supposed to know. I thought you were his personal assitant or something. ;)

Updates?

Hmm, status? Lets see:

exhaust still not done

still haven't tured over

they cahnged the program on the PCM rather than loading the program that is setup for this engine already.

Geoff is not sure if the guages are done Tyler still needs to check on those.

But somehow Geoff says they have worked some one it. Strange, since this is the exact same status I got last time from them. Oh and Geoff says they have just been to bust with the other cars.

I haven't said it before, but I will say it now:

edited

[eboggs_jkvl]

I've e-mailed Mike Norris this morning as to the status of the project.


This is disappointing.



E:)

[Nate's4.6]

Wow!!! Is it still owned by the same people? I have always heard and had good experiences with Norris. I personally have not had my car there but I did help 3 friends with there SS's and one Z06. All cars had good size work done to them and were all done in a respectable amount of time and no over charge for anything.

For there sack I hope its not owned by them anymore and that you get a big price break for this head ache.

[eboggs_jkvl]

One of the mechanics left and they are shorthanded. A guy is coming in and working parttime and doing work on the car. The small things are slowing down the process. I don't kow why the exhaust couldn't be completed as we aren't supplting anything more than the Y pipe to them. The engine is in the car and so is the tranny so the exhaust could be worked on.

The gauges are status unknown. They are following up on them.


The bad PCM has been replaced with a good one and the PCM has a "tune". Waiting on news of engine operation from NLP.

They work on it to where they hit a snag or part requirement and then we supply the part that just came up as "needed". The project was researched as well as possible and parts were supplied. It appears to be a learning curve on both ends.

Mike is aware of the concerns and it appears that they haven't forgotten the project.

Hopefully, it will have all of the parts now and it can be completed.

E:)

[MikeNLP]

Hey Everybody,

Seems to be quite a bit going on here. I read some of this thread but do not have time to get through it all. I also do not wan to try to sway anyone one way or the other as to who is right or wrong or slow or whatever. I only came on as Elmer had e-mailed me asking questions and obviously frustrated. I believe the biggest issue is the lack of updates from my shop manager to Eric, but I could be wrong.

This may have been brought up in the thread and I apologize if I am repeating anything. There was alot of parts brought in by Eric and supposed to be the bulk of parts needed. We all new that there would be other things that pop up. I have done 3 other LSx swaps into non LSx cars. The shortest time frame was 2.5-3 months for a 77 Vette and what it boiled down to was customer supplied parts. Some were not thought of, some were missing, some were wrong. each time an issue arises, works stops and the cars sits. Once parts come in, the car is then rescheduled and will be worked on in the next available slot. This job ended up being a $5500-6000 deal when said and done.

We worked on a semi-completed 34 Ford that used a factory harness and that was a month long project again due to the customer trying to save money and use less expensive parts. If we had used one of the custom harnesses, which are quite pricey in some cases, it would have saved a lot of time, money and headaches. His less expensive GM factory harness cost $1500 to try to make work and ended up buying a nice custom unit anyhow.

The 65 Vette we did was about a 6 month project, but a lot more then just an LSx swap. With that car we used a custom $1100 harnes and it was eamless and clean.

If some one were to come in here with a complete plug and play swap with engine, trans, pedals, fuel system, harness, fans I would guess approx 2 weeks time frame as there is some custom stuff to do. Basically you would use a shell of a third gen and take out the engine, trans, fuel tank, AC and heater components and install new. Once wrong parts or parts that need some changing, fabrication or whatever are added, not only is it extra labor time, but extra down time waiting for parts then to get back in shop work schedule.

On Erics 83, it is a project, not just a normal job. Getting the engine and trans in is the easy part. Issues with fuel system parts supplied, harness supplied, PCM supplied and other small things. Also all the small things related to AC, fuel lines, cooling fans, gauge senders, sensors and senders for the PCM and harness, electrical centers, heater & AC hoses are all things that are not just a normal drop in and go item. I an not sure but from what I understand there are more parts specifically made for this swap to make it easier, but our shop has not done one and Eric did the research. I trust he bought everything available, but I am not sure. Again, trying to save money can sometimes cost more.

I did read something about one of my guys, Tyler, being a "rookie". He is a well trained and experienced GM tech that has worked for me in the past. He also has some limited knowledge on this particular swap which helps us tremendously. The down side he at this time is only available for 3 days a week and only a half a day each day at that. He attends school and helps out his mom otherwise. I will ask him today to put in some extra night time if he can so maybe we can move this project out soon.

In the end, I have never claimed to be the fastest moving shop around and things can really slow down with customer supplied components and more so on a custom job. Though the long time sucks, it will be right when done if we are allowed to proceed properly. There is quite a bill so far on this project and I have yet to ask for anything. If pushed to get something done via threats, which has not happened by the way, or otherwise I am more inclined to stop and work out the issue or let the car go the work under duress. Lifes too short. Now if there was an all inclusive swap kit available that would have cut the time way down as well as our labor, the cost may have seen high, but most likley nothing would be saved budget wise.

Again this is not to defend our shops honor and I did see a few folks that had kind things to say. This is more to explain what we see here at the shop is going on. Also this is not to point blame at Eric also as I am sure he had it in his mind that it was something simple. We could hack a few things, but that is not what we do here. Do it right or don't do it at all. I also understand that communication from my shop manager to Eric was off so far and that is one thing that I apologize for as I mentioned previously. I would never say we are 100% correct or the fastest as mentioned prevously also. Jut need better communication.

Thanks for listening and sory if i repeated myself at all. Have a good one.

Mike Norris

[MikeNLP]

Damn Elmer. You posted while I was typing. Hope this makes sense and no offense if any is taken. Just too much crap slinging can happen at times.

Mike Norris

[eboggs_jkvl]

You always did type slow :D

As said, status was the key thing. Delays can happen but not knowing what was going on was harsh.

I look forward to hearing the car run soon!

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It hasn't been all doom and gloom. Mostly "Where the heck are we!"


E:)

[Lucius Clay]

Originally posted by dingle
Yes I am. blame eboggs he put me up to it.


That's not including parts

:wall:

Not including parts? :wtf:


:faint:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Ok, I'm getting fucking pissed now. IF you don't have money vested in this fucking project, then fuck off with the PRICE.


I'm really tired of the infucking credulous thoughts on a price.


E-fucking-nuff!

[eboggs_jkvl]

The gecko's gonna get cha fer that crack! :p

[Hogie Sammich]

oops, I just posted something in an older thread I think... Oh well. I just wanted to add that I think this project will be cool when finished. I don't really like the 83 maro, but you do what you want, it's your money. And I've seen project like this take a hell of a lot more time. And charging you hourly is how they make their money, they have to eat too. It's going to cost an arm and a leg to pay someone else to figure this stuff out, just a fact. What's your time worth?

Anyway, my buddy put an ls1 in his third gen, it didn't seem to difficult. little cutting here, order a harness there, trailer it to the exhaust shop for a custom exhaust... It's pretty cool though. He's had it a few years now and still drives it like every day. It's a 92.

Anyway, have fun with it when they finish. And I feel for the shop owner. I don't know how many threads I've seen where people bash a shop and don't have a fucking clue what it takes to run one. Only reason I am not one of those guys is because one of my best friends is Rick Hollenback owner of Synergy Motorsports...

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Hogie Sammich
oops, I just posted something in an older thread I think... Oh well. I just wanted to add that I think this project will be cool when finished. I don't really like the 83 maro, but you do what you want, it's your money. And I've seen project like this take a hell of a lot more time. And charging you hourly is how they make their money, they have to eat too. It's going to cost an arm and a leg to pay someone else to figure this stuff out, just a fact. What's your time worth?

Anyway, my buddy put an ls1 in his third gen, it didn't seem to difficult. little cutting here, order a harness there, trailer it to the exhaust shop for a custom exhaust... It's pretty cool though. He's had it a few years now and still drives it like every day. It's a 92.

Anyway, have fun with it when they finish. And I feel for the shop owner. I don't know how many threads I've seen where people bash a shop and don't have a fucking clue what it takes to run one. Only reason I am not one of those guys is because one of my best friends is Rick Hollenback owner of Synergy Motorsports...


I don't think there's been a bashing going on. The problem was a lack of communication. I think that's been addressed and hopefully we can get this done for the trip to G10.


E:)

[dingleberry]

Thanks for replying Mike. Almost all of that information was new to me and would hav eased my concerns quite a bit. The parts have definitely been a hassel and that is mostly my fault, the research I did said I needed such and such parts, so I got them and hoped for the best. I actually did order all the pre-made parts for this except for the custom wiring harness.

From what Geoff told me (Tyler left to get experiance at a GM shop and is now back) I had assumed two things; one, Tyler didn't have much experiance before joining the GM shop, and two, he was back full time. Had I known that he was only working three days a week(and half days on top of that) I would have been less upset when I was told he was not here today and or yesterday etc.

Also knowing that when we had to wait on a part, my car got put into "waiting" would also have calmed my nerves quite a bit. As you said, it's all in the details.

I saw the work NLP did on my dads car and that was very nice and super fast, I just didn't think that this would drag out past two months.

Sigh, I guess I am just an impatient idealistic young-person. I'm my mind though I am already doing this: :drive:

dingle




Originally posted by Mike@NextLevelPerf
Hey Everybody,

Seems to be quite a bit going on here. I read some of this thread but do not have time to get through it all. I also do not wan to try to sway anyone one way or the other as to who is right or wrong or slow or whatever. I only came on as Elmer had e-mailed me asking questions and obviously frustrated. I believe the biggest issue is the lack of updates from my shop manager to Eric, but I could be wrong.

This may have been brought up in the thread and I apologize if I am repeating anything. There was alot of parts brought in by Eric and supposed to be the bulk of parts needed. We all new that there would be other things that pop up. I have done 3 other LSx swaps into non LSx cars. The shortest time frame was 2.5-3 months for a 77 Vette and what it boiled down to was customer supplied parts. Some were not thought of, some were missing, some were wrong. each time an issue arises, works stops and the cars sits. Once parts come in, the car is then rescheduled and will be worked on in the next available slot. This job ended up being a $5500-6000 deal when said and done.

We worked on a semi-completed 34 Ford that used a factory harness and that was a month long project again due to the customer trying to save money and use less expensive parts. If we had used one of the custom harnesses, which are quite pricey in some cases, it would have saved a lot of time, money and headaches. His less expensive GM factory harness cost $1500 to try to make work and ended up buying a nice custom unit anyhow.

The 65 Vette we did was about a 6 month project, but a lot more then just an LSx swap. With that car we used a custom $1100 harnes and it was eamless and clean.

If some one were to come in here with a complete plug and play swap with engine, trans, pedals, fuel system, harness, fans I would guess approx 2 weeks time frame as there is some custom stuff to do. Basically you would use a shell of a third gen and take out the engine, trans, fuel tank, AC and heater components and install new. Once wrong parts or parts that need some changing, fabrication or whatever are added, not only is it extra labor time, but extra down time waiting for parts then to get back in shop work schedule.

On Erics 83, it is a project, not just a normal job. Getting the engine and trans in is the easy part. Issues with fuel system parts supplied, harness supplied, PCM supplied and other small things. Also all the small things related to AC, fuel lines, cooling fans, gauge senders, sensors and senders for the PCM and harness, electrical centers, heater & AC hoses are all things that are not just a normal drop in and go item. I an not sure but from what I understand there are more parts specifically made for this swap to make it easier, but our shop has not done one and Eric did the research. I trust he bought everything available, but I am not sure. Again, trying to save money can sometimes cost more.

I did read something about one of my guys, Tyler, being a "rookie". He is a well trained and experienced GM tech that has worked for me in the past. He also has some limited knowledge on this particular swap which helps us tremendously. The down side he at this time is only available for 3 days a week and only a half a day each day at that. He attends school and helps out his mom otherwise. I will ask him today to put in some extra night time if he can so maybe we can move this project out soon.

In the end, I have never claimed to be the fastest moving shop around and things can really slow down with customer supplied components and more so on a custom job. Though the long time sucks, it will be right when done if we are allowed to proceed properly. There is quite a bill so far on this project and I have yet to ask for anything. If pushed to get something done via threats, which has not happened by the way, or otherwise I am more inclined to stop and work out the issue or let the car go the work under duress. Lifes too short. Now if there was an all inclusive swap kit available that would have cut the time way down as well as our labor, the cost may have seen high, but most likley nothing would be saved budget wise.

Again this is not to defend our shops honor and I did see a few folks that had kind things to say. This is more to explain what we see here at the shop is going on. Also this is not to point blame at Eric also as I am sure he had it in his mind that it was something simple. We could hack a few things, but that is not what we do here. Do it right or don't do it at all. I also understand that communication from my shop manager to Eric was off so far and that is one thing that I apologize for as I mentioned previously. I would never say we are 100% correct or the fastest as mentioned prevously also. Jut need better communication.

Thanks for listening and sory if i repeated myself at all. Have a good one.

Mike Norris

[keliente]

If I was dropping off an '83 for an LS1 swap, I would want them to keep the damn thing until it was done perfect, even if that took 6 months. I wouldn't be bugging them about it either. Good things take time, right? :cool:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by keliente
If I was dropping off an '83 for an LS1 swap, I would want them to keep the damn thing until it was done perfect, even if that took 6 months. I wouldn't be bugging them about it either. Good things take time, right? :cool:

That I understand, though from the many times I talked to the shop mgr (over a two month period) I was getting a lot of; so and so didn't show up these days, so we only worked on you car 1 day this week, or something to that nature. So with the information I was given it appeared that I was the lowest priority in the shop (which is not the case). :p

[eboggs_jkvl]

2 days..

:cough:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
2 days..

:cough:

huh? The replacement Y-pipe shows as delivered this morning before 9am.

[MikeNLP]

I wasn't at the shop today, but I was told the Y-pipe showed today and will take quite a bit of fab work to fit, but not as much as a fresh from scratch piece. Hopefully we will get to that part of the shpw Monday or Tuesday. Also, the engine fired to day, but they did not run it long with just having open stock manifolds. Once we get the exhaust done we can check everything else out and go from there. Little by little.

Elmer, from the "2 days :cough:" remark, hope you weren't trying to be a wise ass towards the shop :D

Have a good weekend all.

Mike Norris

[eboggs_jkvl]

NAw, it's a jab at Dingle to keep him awake.


Running motor sounds like a wonderful thing! I'm feeling better with that thought.

I'm still giggling at the 3.08 in there. I'm guessing mid to high 30s MPG on the highway! I think that would classify as a cruiser.

E:)

[Kal-El]

when did dingle become a mod?

[Kal-El]

now an admin

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Kal-El
now an admin


About a week ago. It's a training program for my replacement if the situation requires my position to be filled.

No big deal really.


E:)

[mrgto]

I would have just saved my money and did this kit...

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ls1_conversion_

[Kal-El]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
About a week ago. It's a training program for my replacement if the situation requires my position to be filled.

No big deal really.


E:)

i know, just saw that at the beginning of the thread he was a member , then a mod, then i check it today and he is an admin. just niticing changes.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by mrgto
I would have just saved my money and did this kit...

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ls1_conversion_

Actually, I think that actually was one source of parts for the car. He was well aware of the site.


E:)

[wheel junky]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
NAw, it's a jab at Dingle to keep him awake.


Running motor sounds like a wonderful thing! I'm feeling better with that thought.

I'm still giggling at the 3.08 in there. I'm guessing mid to high 30s MPG on the highway! I think that would classify as a cruiser.

E:) good!!!!then he can drive here to my place this summer!!:yay: and be able to afford it!!

[eboggs_jkvl]

Oh, wait. I messed up. I should have said...



It lives! It's alive! Igor, get wine!

:lol:

[QWIKLS1]

Well, I kinda know what that's all about. It's not really all that important how long a project takes when you take it in to the shop, it's how the final product is. :cool: That's what's important in the long run.

Since he got it back/running.

Beers on Eric @ G10. :woot: :beer:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by mrgto
I would have just saved my money and did this kit...

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ls1_conversion_

I did get some parts from them, but a lot of those parts are not needed and VERY exspensive!
You can also get LS1 conversion parts from:

http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1191
http://www.fbodymotorsports.com/
http://www.hotrodlane.cc/

I did quite a bit of research on the interweb for this. Though there is apparently a shop that will do a full conversion and also provides a donor LS1 car for all the parts, I think the final price for them is somewhere around 11-12k (including the donor) but you still have to provide the 3rd gen.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/139/139825/folders/232175/1866645xls.JPG

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by wheel junky
good!!!!then he can drive here to my place this summer!!:yay: and be able to afford it!!

Lol, I need to talk to you about that..

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Ole
Well, I kinda know what that's all about. It's not really all that important how long a project takes when you take it in to the shop, it's how the final product is. :cool: That's what's important in the long run.

Since he got it back/running.

Beers on Eric @ G10. :woot: :beer:

Woah there nelly. It's not in my hands yet. So don't count up those beers right now. :P

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Actually, I think that actually was one source of parts for the car. He was well aware of the site.


E:)

:yup: This site also has a lot of threads from guys that have done it or are in the process of doing the swap. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/

[wheel junky]

Originally posted by dingle
Lol, I need to talk to you about that..
talk to me my brutha...talk to me! :fluffy:
so far its the usual.for the 4th...:flame:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Weekly :cough:


Rumor has it that the word progress is sneaking around in Orlando. :squint:



E:)

[JohnnyLS2]

.... update? :D

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by JohnnyZ28
.... update? :D

It was towed to a muffler shop to get a custom pipe(y-pipe) fitted from the manifold to the existing exhaust. Geoff actually drove the car back from the muffler shop which was five miles away (driving it back was my idea since I'm such a thrifty fucker :P), they need to check the fans because they didn't turn on at all. They also still need to install the O2 sensors and tunes the engine. I was asked to call back tomorrow around 11am to see if it will be ready this weekend.

:drive:

[MikeNLP]

And what a pretty y-pipe it is :rolleyes: Typical of what I expected though from a "fast food" type of place and the cost. At least she runs and rolls.

Mike Norris

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Mike@NextLevelPerf
And what a pretty y-pipe it is :rolleyes: Typical of what I expected though from a "fast food" type of place and the cost. At least she runs and rolls.

Mike Norris



:fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy: :fluffy:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Mike@NextLevelPerf
And what a pretty y-pipe it is :rolleyes: Typical of what I expected though from a "fast food" type of place and the cost. At least she runs and rolls.

Mike Norris

Hmm, Geoff didn't say anything about that. :think:

[dingleberry]

The fan issue has been resolved. The 02's have been installed. Getting very close, not expecting it done this week(still up in the air, but I am going to wait till next sat no matter what so I can make sure I have a truck available to haul parts back), but I am feeling good about next week.

The air intake needs to be adjusted, the fuse box that was installed is right in its path. doh. Other than that just going over everything to make sure it is working and doing the dyno tune. :cool:

[KlayBuRn]

Is it just me or does things seem to be moving along a lot quicker now that this has picked up some internet traffic?

Good luck, can't wait :cool:

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Is it just me or does things seem to be moving along a lot quicker now that this has picked up some internet traffic?

Good luck, can't wait :cool:

:hmm:

I cant wait to see pics :hyper:

I'd like to have a 89 GTA with an LS6 in it :yup:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Oh Dingle? Sup homey?

:info:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Oh Dingle? Sup homey?

:info:

Uhm, I didn't call. The guy working on my car is only part time, and they have so few things left to do I will wait for Geoff to call me. I'm working on my patience, someone keeps telling me it a virtue or some shit so I figure I might as well practice. :p

[eboggs_jkvl]

Close but I think 4 wires can be run in lieu of an "official" wiring harness. Looks like we're at the point where the laptop connects to the PCM but we need the plug installed and wired. The plug is at NLP and been there for 3 weeks.



E:)

[dingleberry]

Current Status: Almost all of the guages were not working, so Mike spent all day today working on my car and got the guages fixed. So all that is left is to calibrate the Speedo, and Dynotune. There is still an outstanding issue with the PCM, apparently the VIN code is for an auto, and for some reason Mike cannot get the crankshaft to relearn. I think that is what he said (don't have my notes in front of me). Looks like I will be picking it up sometime next week :xfings:

[67Beast]

Pics when you get it back and tell us how it runs :cool:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by 67Beast
Pics when you get it back and tell us how it runs :cool:

I will also have a vid of the Dyno tune. That way if it blows up at least I will have something to remember it by. :p

[eboggs_jkvl]

The VIN is for a 2002 M6, so that's crap about the VIN blocking a relearn "because it's for an A4 VIN".

Glad the gauges are working and that you are making progress.

E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
The VIN is for a 2002 M6, so that's crap about the VIN blocking a relearn "because it's for an A4 VIN".

Glad the gauges are working and that you are making progress.

E:)

Well the VIN I have and the VIN that are in the PCM do not match. So the VIN in there could very well be for a A4. I contacted Wait4me from LS1Tech (Sponser who I got the PCM from) and he said They can do the relearn no problem.. I do them all the time and it doesnt matter if the vin is different... I have no idea what they are having a problem with.. Have them call me, ill walk them thru it. thanks JEs So I don't know what's going to come of that. Mike has turned off the A4 stuff in the PCM but it is still looking for something. :shrug: I don't know shit about PCM's so it's hard for me to get to detailed. Mike said he did call but Jes wasn't available.

[eboggs_jkvl]

I guess wait4me used a number different from the one we requsted. Oh well. The number you had was for the M6 if it was mis-copied, then NLP is probably correct. However, it should NOT cause engine running problems.


E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
I guess wait4me used a number different from the one we requsted. Oh well. The number you had was for the M6 if it was mis-copied, then NLP is probably correct. However, it should NOT cause engine running problems.


E:)

Well he says regardless of VIN it should not be a problem to relearn. :shrug:

[dingleberry]

Well this is interesting. The Alternator that was removed from my fathers car after he drove down from Jax to Orlando is no good. Tack another $200 onto the bill. :mad:

[MikeNLP]

Too much fun isn't it?? I have a couple C5 alternators here that I would just give you, but the body size is different. We used another alternator of another F-body here at the shop for a cam swap to verify it would work. Not sure why the one off elmer's car is not working, but is surely is not. We even jumped 12 volts directly to the alternator to trigger it and still no output. The PCM has no output either to the alternator, but we can get around that. As far as the crank relearn I can just turn off the code and it should be fine. The car actually ran "decent" on the speedo calibration road trip.

"The VIN is for a 2002 M6, so that's crap about the VIN blocking a relearn "because it's for an A4 VIN"."

Thanks for the faith Elmer :rolleyes: , but thanks also for the "I guess wait4me used a number different from the one we requsted. Oh well. The number you had was for the M6 if it was mis-copied, then NLP is probably correct." I am guessing about the relearn not taking due to a A4 box and an M6 harness. It basically says it does not see a park or neutral reference and can not complete. i tried running a jumper to the PCM for the neutral reference and still did not work. Oh well.

Later All.

Mike Norris

[KlayBuRn]

Now I know who not to take my LS1 to...

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Now I know who not to take my LS1 to...

Well give them some credit. This was not an easy job by any means and I'm sure I didn't make it any easier on them. :p

[Kal-El]

i just rememjbered that dingle was elmers son. :doh:

[KlayBuRn]

Originally posted by dingle
Well give them some credit. This was not an easy job by any means and I'm sure I didn't make it any easier on them. :p

Is the motor/tranny stock ?

I'm getting tired of waiting to see this final project...

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Is the motor/tranny stock ?

I'm getting tired of waiting to see this final project...

Yup, everything is stock for an LS1. The guages and wiring were causing some problems or I would have had it sooner.

The gas gauage doesn't work, something about the OHMS are different? Speed tach and temps should all be working tho.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Kal-El
i just rememjbered that dingle was elmers son. :doh:

:yup: x2 lol

[MikeNLP]

Here is the latest and greatest. The remanufactured alternator is on and working. The volt gauge does not work, but Eric said it did not work before.

The oil pressure and water temp gauges are operational. The tach is not compatible with the LSx tach signal, so most likely an Autometer tach to go with the Autometer speedo is in order down the road. Actually making a nice custom all Autometer unit would be nice.

The fuel level gauge does not work in that the older third gen uses a 0-90 ohm sender and the late model tank, pump & sender is run off of 40-250 ohms so no compatibility there.

Otherwise we are all set............I think and just need to what the dyno has to say. then finally get her out of here :D

Later All.

Mike Norris

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

If you have no tachometer...how are you going to dyno it??

Just wrap it out till it hits the rev limiter??

[KlayBuRn]

Couldnt you buy a tach or something that would work along with the other non-operational gauges and get gauges that would work and mount them on the A-pillar ?

Tach maybe not so much, but has to be some kind of custom gauge you can do...

Can you upgrade or fab in a 98-02 dash into the thirdgen ?

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Originally posted by TireFryer30th
If you have no tachometer...how are you going to dyno it??

Just wrap it out till it hits the rev limiter??



Dynos usually have their own Tachs (connects to the motor with a probe)....


I wouldn't trust a stock tach anyways:no:

[Johnny_Pappis]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Couldnt you buy a tach or something that would work along with the other non-operational gauges and get gauges that would work and mount them on the A-pillar ?

Tach maybe not so much, but has to be some kind of custom gauge you can do...

Can you upgrade or fab in a 98-02 dash into the thirdgen ?




ive seen it done

[KlayBuRn]

Originally posted by Johnny_Pappis
ive seen it done

I am really amazed that one person that had a hard top 3rd gen, go to t-tops, and then to convertable hasnt posted yet...

I cant remeber what their interior looked like...

[BananaNutz]

Originally posted by Mike@NextLevelPerf
...The tach is not compatible with the LSx tach signal, so most likely an Autometer tach to go with the Autometer speedo is in order down the road. Actually making a nice custom all Autometer unit would be nice....
just grab the unit that hawks sells for the speedo and tach signal and save the hassle of doing a custom dash... factory look> custom dash :drive:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Get a tach Dingle. The sending unit for the gas gauge will need to be replaced to make it work on your dash.


E:)

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by BananaNutz
just grab the unit that hawks sells for the speedo and tach signal and save the hassle of doing a custom dash... factory look> custom dash :drive:


Got a link?


E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by BananaNutz
just grab the unit that hawks sells for the speedo and tach signal and save the hassle of doing a custom dash... factory look> custom dash :drive:

Hawks does have a tach signal interface up there. I shoulda bought that! I don't know how I missed that. :mad:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Got a link?


E:)

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/inc/sdetail/19294

[dingleberry]

I am going to see how the autometer speedo looks in there, I may just get a new tach all together. I will have to do some work under the dash anyhow. I just need to get the car home, I can't afford to keep it at the shop anymore (no offense to you of course Mike).

[dingleberry]

Oh hey Mike,

Am I going to get to see the Dyno? I know you have a couple other guys showing up on saturday, but I really want to get the virgin dyno tune on tape. ;)

[eboggs_jkvl]

This looks good!


http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/inc/sdetail/20663



EVEN BETTER!

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/inc/sdetail/20659 Need 150 MPH speedo in that thing!


E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
This looks good!


http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/inc/sdetail/20663


E:)

1) Price: $549.95

2) These are mechanical gauges.

speedo wouldn't work without the $300 mech->electronic box.

3) $849.95

[eboggs_jkvl]

Hey! I said they look good. Not that they'd work!

E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Hey! I said they look good. Not that they'd work!

E:)

:sillyme:

[dingleberry]

Update:

Looks like I am picking the car up tomorrow morning. Mike is going to do the dyno tune today (too much going on saturday to do it) but is going to try and do it last today so it can stay on the dyno until I get there first thing Saturday so I can at least see a run. :(

I can't wait to get this beast back in my hands! :cool:

[Squid]

Originally posted by dingle
Update:

Looks like I am picking the car up tomorrow morning. Mike is going to do the dyno tune today (too much going on saturday to do it) but is going to try and do it last today so it can stay on the dyno until I get there first thing Saturday so I can at least see a run. :(

I can't wait to get this beast back in my hands! :cool:

No kidding... I bet you are ready to have some fun with this thing. Just be careful for the first 500 miles, because if anything catastrophic will happen, it'll happen fairly soon.

Have fun, and buckle up.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Squid
No kidding... I bet you are ready to have some fun with this thing. Just be careful for the first 500 miles, because if anything catastrophic will happen, it'll happen fairly soon.

Have fun, and buckle up.

So you are saying I should at least put 500 miles on it before I drive it to G10? :wall:

[Carsnob]

So how long total has the shop had it?

[Squid]

Originally posted by dingle
So you are saying I should at least put 500 miles on it before I drive it to G10? :wall:

I would put a good 100 and take it back to the shop and have them look over it before making the long haul

:yup:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Carsnob
So how long total has the shop had it?

I dropped it off Feb 8th. Not all their fault for the delays, I had to aquire parts as we figured out they were needed or the ones we had were bad, etc.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Just drive it a little. You'll know if something is wrong. Bring it up here and let the geezer look at it.


D:)

[Carsnob]

Originally posted by dingle
I dropped it off Feb 8th. Not all their fault for the delays, I had to aquire parts as we figured out they were needed or the ones we had were bad, etc.

That's not too bad really. My mustang has been down since early december and all it's getting is a h/c/i not a whole new motor that wasn't even thought of when the car was designed.

[MikeNLP]

Hey All,

What a long trip and it will be good to see Eric drive the car for sure. She put down 285RWHP and 305RWT which is probably about right considering a stock engine and the "suspect" exhaust along with 3.73's.

We just quoted a job to start next month installing a 550HP 402 LS2 and M6 into a 1969 Corvette with suspension and brakes. It will run in the $55-60K area, but everything is new and leaving the chassis unmolested to go back to stock if need be. This is because it is a numbers matching LT1 car now.

Later.

Mike Norris

[eboggs_jkvl]

The rear has 3.08s Mike. I'm glad the car is ready to be driven. Thanks.


E:)

[dingleberry]

Well today turned out to be quite and interesting day. I got there at 8:15am and snagged Mike before anyone else could show up :devil: got the car on the dyno and she put down 291hp and 310trq (I think that was the right torque number, I left the print outs in the camaro). Took some quick video outside, paid the bill :eek: (don't ask) and started the hour long trek home.

Got 10 miles and the car died. :cry2: After getting a tow back to the shop (luckily Mike hadn't snuck out yet) determined that the refurbished alternator that was just installed is now not putting out any juice, hence the battery died and the car shut down.

I left the car at the shop till next weekend and told Mike to go ahead and get another alt under the part warranty and test it out good.

There was a strange occurence (that happened previously according to the shop) after we got it back in the shop and on the charger. It started right up but the radio turned itself on and none of the control would work (volume, power, station etc.) :boggled: Mike and I have no idea wtf that is about, but when I picked up the car it didn't exhibit this behavior until it shut down, so I'm thinking it may be due to lack of available juice :think:

Mike tuned the car yesterday afternoon and it started right up this morning, so we are hoping we just got a bad alt. :xfingers:

Anyway, I got a vid of the dyno coming up here shortly.

[eboggs_jkvl]

So, I take it you had to be towed to the shop? 10 miles? Damn. So, that makes it 2 bad alternators so far? There is something blowing the alternators if that is true. Sure sounds electrical with the radio doing the poltergeist thing. :think:

Since you paid the completed project bill, this should be covered under a little warranty effort.

I'm sure Mike can find the problem.

[dingleberry]

http://media.putfile.com/my-83-LS1-Camaro-Dyno-Run

[KlayBuRn]

Originally posted by dingle
http://media.putfile.com/my-83-LS1-Camaro-Dyno-Run

Man I totally would have not put the intake there dude...

I would have tried to route it like the TPI's did stock...

Up over radiator and suck air in through the 2 gaps in front...

[wheel junky]

he needs to get it back home so he can play!!!

[67Beast]

Originally posted by dingle
http://media.putfile.com/my-83-LS1-Camaro-Dyno-Run

Car sounds sweet. Now we need video of the Camaro on the street :cool:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Man I totally would have not put the intake there dude...

I would have tried to route it like the TPI's did stock...

Up over radiator and suck air in through the 2 gaps in front...

Well the original plan was to go down next to the fog light, but the fuse box got in the way so they just removed a L. When I get it home I will work on that.

[KlayBuRn]

Originally posted by dingle
Well the original plan was to go down next to the fog light, but the fuse box got in the way so they just removed a L. When I get it home I will work on that.

:cool:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Man I totally would have not put the intake there dude...

I would have tried to route it like the TPI's did stock...

Up over radiator and suck air in through the 2 gaps in front...

It won't hurt a thing where it's at. Give the guy a chance to work on it dammit. IT JUST WAS FINISHED!


Damn hind-site engineers! :p:p

[KlayBuRn]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
It won't hurt a thing where it's at. Give the guy a chance to work on it dammit. IT JUST WAS FINISHED!


Damn hind-site engineers! :p:p

I just prefer cool air over engine baked hot ass air thats all :D

[dingleberry]

Ok, heard from Mike today. They got another alternator and it was dead, so they took the two alts back to their supplier and the supplier confirmed they are dead. Got another alt got it installed and it has run for 15 minutes so far with no problem. I told Mike there is a full tank of gas and I would prefer he plop a fan in front of the car and let it run for a good while (30mins +) to make sure nothing funny is going on.

Mike is also going to take a look at the temp guage and probably just run a new wire for it. It worked before, but now it is only working intermittingly. So probably a loose/bad wire.

Looking to make another pickup attempt this Saturday.

[stavman]

Looking good other then the fact that it looks like a monkey did the wiring.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by stavman
Looking good other then the fact that it looks like a monkey did the wiring.

Lol, as long is it is hooked up and functioning it will be fine. I am going to be doing a lot of cleaning up and relocated of various stuff till I get it the way I want it.



Status:

Car has been started multiple times and run for multiple 20 minute sessions. Temp gauge is working (new wire installed). Picking it up again this Saturday. :thumbup: :drive:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Ok, hell... I just have to ask...


Why in the hell did 2 alternators die in the car? Was there a problem? Surely, installing a 3rd alternator and this one "works" seems weird especially if nothing was done EXCEPT replace the alternator.



E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Ok, hell... I just have to ask...


Why in the hell did 2 alternators die in the car? Was there a problem? Surely, installing a 3rd alternator and this one "works" seems weird especially if nothing was done EXCEPT replace the alternator.



E:)

Actually, if you count the alternator you left (it was working when it was removed from your car) that would be three alternators went bad, not two.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Ok, hell... I just have to ask, correctly this time,...


Why in the hell did 3 (edit) alternators die in the car? Was there a problem? Surely, installing a 4th (edit) alternator and this one "works" seems weird especially if nothing was done EXCEPT replace the alternators.

Did I get it correct that time? :D:D


Ya know what? Forget it. Something has changed and I really don't care what. If the 4th alternator fixed the problem, so be it. I'm just pleased as punch that it is fixed.


E:)

[eboggs_jkvl]

BTW, is it still a go for getting the car on Saturday?

[Victory]

are the computers mounted in the engine bay in the original ls1 cars as well?

are they going to move it inside the car?

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Victory
are the computers mounted in the engine bay in the original ls1 cars as well?

are they going to move it inside the car?


Yes, they are on the firewall near the hood hinge on the passenger side. They are tucked under the cowl of the firewall.

E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Victory
are the computers mounted in the engine bay in the original ls1 cars as well?

are they going to move it inside the car?

Any thing beyond what is done now is done by me. So They = Dingle.

I am going to take a look and see what I can do. As long as everything is hooked up and working and I extend and or shorten whatever I need. I am somewhat profiencient with electronics. ;) Ideally I would like to put it in the same spot as the LS1 but NLP said something was in the way there, so we will just have to wait and see what can be done.

The PCM definitely needs to be hidden/covered. That was the first thing I thought when I looked under the hood. The fuse box will probably get moved as well. But like I said, I don't even have a running car in my hands yet. So time will tell.

[dingleberry]

I made it home! Wow, do I feel relieved! :D

The car ran pretty good and didn't get to hot so the electric fans are doing their job. The alternator hasn't died yet so hopefully whatever the problem was is now gone. However my radio is toasted, probably due to whatever was eating the alternators. Once it turns on, you can't control it and nothing is on the display (can't even turn it off :eek:). So it looks like I will be getting a new radio (unless I like jamming out to the local spanish station). :(

[dingleberry]

Here is a video of some things I noticed after inspecting the vehical when I got home.
http://media.putfile.com/First_Impression_83_LS1


Mike, where are the A/C connections! My A/C won't even turn on!

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Originally posted by dingle
Here is a video of some things I noticed after inspecting the vehical when I got home.
http://media.putfile.com/First_Impression_83_LS1


Mike, where are the A/C connections! My A/C won't even turn on!




Sorry man, but that's just unacceptable :nono:


I've seen bowls of spaghetti neater than that:thumbdn:


Thought you were gunna get zapped near the end of the video :no:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by 98 SNAKE EATER
Thought you were gunna get zapped near the end of the video :no:


Lol, no everything I was handling was "up wind" of the power. ;)

[Carsnob]

Dingle,

This is what happened to your car... they put the battery in backwards!

How do I know this? I too recently accidentally put the batter in my car backwards (damn fox body not having marked cables). It had been 4 months since my battery had been in the car and I forgot which way it went :o

I had to replace the alternator...

The radio didn't work...

My vents won't blow...

Sounds familiar doesn't it? :hmmm:

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Carsnob
Dingle,

This is what happened to your car... they put the battery in backwards!

How do I know this? I too recently accidentally put the batter in my car backwards (damn fox body not having marked cables). It had been 4 months since my battery had been in the car and I forgot which way it went :o

I had to replace the alternator...

The radio didn't work...

My vents won't blow...

Sounds familiar doesn't it? :hmmm:

Lol, I don't know, the car was running, would it even run if the battery was backwards? I made it 10 miles before the 2nd alternator fried. I'm thinking the A/C is due to it not being plugged into ANYTHING (see the video).

[eboggs_jkvl]

That video is extremely disappointing. 87 days and that is a "completed" conversion?

I see MANY hours of:
Tracing and mining needed to clean that rat's nest up.
Rerouting the wiring to be safe.
Firmly anchoring the fuse box section.
Rewiring the inside dash area.
Bringing in the PCM ASDL connector INSIDE of the car so you can actually use it! VERY POOR choice on the location in the engine bay.
Finding the AC wiring to get the AC running.
Getting a lead to the tach so we can get that to work.
Repairing the radio wiring to get it off the Salsa station.
That shifter problem will take a little creativity to get it to hit 5th 6th and reverse.

Does the speedo work? Rest of the gauges? Lights? Turnsignals?

I'm really sorry I recommended that you take your car there for the work.

Elmer

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
That video is extremely disappointing. 87 days and that is a "completed" conversion?

I see MANY hours of:
Tracing and mining needed to clean that rat's nest up.
Rerouting the wiring to be safe.
Firmly anchoring the fuse box section.
Rewiring the inside dash area.
Bringing in the PCM ASDL connector INSIDE of the car so you can actually use it! VERY POOR choice on the location in the engine bay.
Finding the AC wiring to get the AC running.
Getting a lead to the tach so we can get that to work.
Repairing the radio wiring to get it off the Salsa station.
That shifter problem will take a little creativity to get it to hit 5th 6th and reverse.

Does the speedo work? Rest of the gauges? Lights? Turnsignals?

I'm really sorry I recommended that you take your car there for the work.

Elmer

Well, the parts were installed cleanly, but the wiring definitely needs some help. I think Mike ended up doing a lot of it because the other guys weren't having any luck.

The guages, uhm, speedo, oil pressure, and temp guage are working. Volt, Tach, and gas do not work. The gas we talked about so I definitely need a new guage for that. I will probably just end up installing all new guages so they all look the same.

Headlights, breaklights and turn signals work.

The controls for the air don't do anything, so that will require some time to get straight. The bad part there is I don't see the connectors anywhere for the A/C. I know what they should look like, but there is nothing there. :(

I think I may drive it up there for mothers day when I visit so I can get your input.

[Carsnob]

Originally posted by dingle
Lol, I don't know, the car was running, would it even run if the battery was backwards? I made it 10 miles before the 2nd alternator fried. I'm thinking the A/C is due to it not being plugged into ANYTHING (see the video).

LOL no, I put it in backwards for a second... then I heard sizzzle sizzzle puff of smoke. It is in correct now.

That was the effects of hooking it up for just a second backwards. Fried all the same things that are/were fried on yours.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Carsnob
LOL no, I put it in backwards for a second... then I heard sizzzle sizzzle puff of smoke. It is in correct now.

That was the effects of hooking it up for just a second backwards. Fried all the same things that are/were fried on yours.

Yea, but when I picked up the car the first time it started right up when I got there, did a dyno run. started right up when I left then died 10 miles later. They installed a different grounding wire and the problem seems to hve gone away. However the radio is still toast. Also, the A/C won't turn on becuase the wires that are supposed to be plugged in are missing. So, no connections, no go.

[Dwarf Killer]

At this point, it might be a good idea to visit a good automotive electrician. The task doesn't look too daunting though. You need a couple of shop manuals. Not Haynes or Chilton.:D

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
That video is extremely disappointing. 87 days and that is a "completed" conversion?

I see MANY hours of:
Tracing and mining needed to clean that rat's nest up.
Rerouting the wiring to be safe.
Firmly anchoring the fuse box section.
Rewiring the inside dash area.
Bringing in the PCM ASDL connector INSIDE of the car so you can actually use it! VERY POOR choice on the location in the engine bay.
Finding the AC wiring to get the AC running.
Getting a lead to the tach so we can get that to work.
Repairing the radio wiring to get it off the Salsa station.
That shifter problem will take a little creativity to get it to hit 5th 6th and reverse.

Does the speedo work? Rest of the gauges? Lights? Turnsignals?

I'm really sorry I recommended that you take your car there for the work.

Elmer


I dont want to come off like a dick, because I understand the amount of time it takes to do an engine swap...BUT 87 days and it comes out of the shop needing more work than when it went in :nosulk:

And, Im confused...why is the stock a/c unit still in there?? Did the engine that was purchased not come with all the accesories?? Why not use the 4th gen. accessories??

Dingle...I love the LS1 swap, Im sorry it came out looking like that. I would highly advise NLP showing your car to their other customer who is going to install and LS1 into a 1st. gen Camaro and charge them 40k to do the work...Im betting the customer will find another shop.

Hope you get everything the way you want it...

[KlayBuRn]

Wow, I am so never going to NLP...

Fuck them :eek:

[Carsnob]

Originally posted by dingle
Yea, but when I picked up the car the first time it started right up when I got there, did a dyno run. started right up when I left then died 10 miles later. They installed a different grounding wire and the problem seems to hve gone away. However the radio is still toast. Also, the A/C won't turn on becuase the wires that are supposed to be plugged in are missing. So, no connections, no go.

Well, the car will run as long as the battery has a charge. I cranked mine after and ran it for a while doing some tuning and even drove it around the block after being jumped off. The battery had been sitting on the garage floor for 4 months too.

But it sounds like you got it all figured out :2thumbs: It just sounded very similar to my situation so I thought I'd share. Not many people have experience with that happening (damn ford).

[mike83Z]

Originally posted by KlayBuRn
Wow, I am so never going to NLP...

Fuck them :eek:

:werd: Looks like a pretty sloppy job.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by TireFryer30th
I dont want to come off like a dick, because I understand the amount of time it takes to do an engine swap...BUT 87 days and it comes out of the shop needing more work than when it went in :nosulk:

And, Im confused...why is the stock a/c unit still in there?? Did the engine that was purchased not come with all the accesories?? Why not use the 4th gen. accessories??

Dingle...I love the LS1 swap, Im sorry it came out looking like that. I would highly advise NLP showing your car to their other customer who is going to install and LS1 into a 1st. gen Camaro and charge them 40k to do the work...Im betting the customer will find another shop.

Hope you get everything the way you want it...

Yea, the A/c stayed with my dads car. I purchased a bracket and pully system to use a stock 3rdgen A/C unit. I hope I can get it working, I would hate to have bought that kit and an '87 A/c unit for naught.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Dwarf Killer
At this point, it might be a good idea to visit a good automotive electrician. The task doesn't look too daunting though. You need a couple of shop manuals. Not Haynes or Chilton.:D

I got the 83 shop manual. Everything is hooked up as far as I can tell except for the A/C. Cleaning stuff up shouldn't require a manual. :p

[Bad Mojo]

Man. That's a lot of shit right there. Glad it's up and running though! A running car > one still in the shop, any day.


EDIT: Just watched the vid.

What.
The.
Fuck.


That's really all I can say about that.

[426HEMI]

Wow. I just watched your video Dingle and I must say that throughout the whole thing I was like :eek: That engine bay looks like something I would expect to see in a junkyard after a redneck had owned it for 20 years. 87 days for THAT?!?! I would be livid. You are a much calmer person than I am, I probably would have extinguished my entire vocabulary of not so nice words during that 5 minutes. That's saying quite a bit.

The job looks like it was performed by a one armed monkey with a hornet's nest up it's ass.

I sincerely hope that Mike or any rep from NLP never shows their face on this board again, their work is deplorable.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

:nosulk:

Damn that is sad, sad, work. NLP, you should be ashamed and allowing a car to leave your shop in that condition says alot about the shop that you run.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by 426HEMI
Wow. I just watched your video Dingle and I must say that throughout the whole thing I was like :eek: That engine bay looks like something I would expect to see in a junkyard after a redneck had owned it for 20 years. 87 days for THAT?!?! I would be livid. You are a much calmer person than I am, I probably would have extinguished my entire vocabulary of not so nice words during that 5 minutes. That's saying quite a bit.

The job looks like it was performed by a one armed monkey with a hornet's nest up it's ass.

I sincerely hope that Mike or any rep from NLP never shows their face on this board again, their work is deplorable.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

:nosulk:

Damn that is sad, sad, work. NLP, you should be ashamed and allowing a car to leave your shop in that condition says alot about the shop that you run.

What good would that have done? I am just happy I could get her home. I am just happy the hourly charging is done. The rest of this shit I can figure out, but my pockets are not deep enough to pay people to do all that.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by 426HEMI
Damn that is sad, sad, work. NLP, you should be ashamed and allowing a car to leave your shop in that condition says alot about the shop that you run.

I think they were just happy to get rid of the car. I don't think this was an easy project by any means and there was a lot of twists and turns to make a good movie plot.

The transmission location thing has me boggled though. From all the other threads I have read no one has ever meaned the offset before. :think:

[02BlackBullet]

Dingle, I know your dad off of our local board. I saw his post on our site telling about your experience with Mike and NLP.

Way to calm sir.

I read every page and watched the video 3 times making sure I was actually seeing what I saw.

I know it has been exhausted in the thread a few times but I have the following to umm..."say" if you will:

For the amount of money that you have paid for this swap, I woulld expect a SEAMLESS install with PERFECTLY loomed wires, ALL accessories working 100% and EVERY gauge working 100%...THIS IS TO SAY THE LEAST.

What you paid for is a masterpiece. What you got is shit....kinda like a tune that I got from there. I left with a car running so rich that it burns your eyes at a stop light, died at idle sometimes, and again, was running so rich that it was literally SPITTING GAS OUT OF THE TAIL PIPES...not to mention I was still throwing rear 02 sensor codes. :rolleyes:

I unfortuantly expect the same skill and attention to detail that was shown on my tune is now showing through with your car.

I see your video and it kills me. I would take it back toss em the keys and say FIX THIS SHIT.

Anyway, sorry about your problems. They need to step up and fix that shit.

I'll get off my :soapbox: now and go back to my hole. LoL

[dingleberry]

Lookie what I found out about the alternator!

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/engine-swap/276021-please-help-89-iroc.html?highlight=LT1+Alternator

Use the stock LT1 plug with the one red wire. Take the red wire from the C220 connector, put a 470ohm 1 watt resistor inline and the splice that wire into a switched ignition 12v source, this will make the alternator work when needed, mine charges at 14.1v with no problems at all.

[HighSpeedLoDrag]

Wow, looks like you ran into a lot of trouble for this swap. I hope it all works out for you in the long run, and you get enjoyment out of it. Atleast you can take this opportunity to really tidy up the wiring in the engine bay, maybe re-route a few things that you might have ordinarily left out in the open, etc.

[Quadcammer]

damn dude, damn.

that is some of the shabbiest work I have ever seen.

Id be some kinda pissed.

[BananaNutz]

your way to calm about this... i can understand the relief of just getting the car back in your hands. the wiring is complete and utter dog shit.. theres no way to put a positive spin on that... good luck getting everything worked out, and to the way that you want to have it. i dont live down there, but i can safely say that if they were the last shop in business in the world, i wouldnt even take my beater there...

[Kal-El]

Fuck that shit, take it back and tell them to fix it right or you'll have your lawyer talk to them. that is total bullshit.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Kal-El
Fuck that shit, take it back and tell them to fix it right or you'll have your lawyer talk to them. that is total bullshit.

The car is running. I'm taking my lesson's learned. WTF will a lawyer do besides waste more of my money and not fix the car?I am concentrating on getting this thing in good shape.

First rule of business is to get the alternator thing straightend out.

[Dwarf Killer]

Putting the 470ohm 1 watt resistor is fine, but I would still be curious to find out what components are causing the irregular charging. Try hooking up an ammeter along with the voltmeter to see what it registers.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Dwarf Killer
Putting the 470ohm 1 watt resistor is fine, but I would still be curious to find out what components are causing the irregular charging. Try hooking up an ammeter along with the voltmeter to see what it registers.

Hmm, I don't have an ammeter.

from this I guess the resistor would go on the small wire(I'm assuming it goes to the volt meter)?

Okay, after gathering all the info from painless, howell, and your replies, I went and consulted the manuals that I purchased for the swap (1 Helm 1995 Fbody, 1 Helm 1989 Fbody). On the 1995 charging system schematics, it shows a 470 OHM resister in the Instrument Cluster (circuit running through the voltmeter). On the 1989 side, there doesn't appear to be any kind of resister anywhere in the instrument cluster relating to the charging system.

Conclusion: as Z28Racer already stated, there has to be a resistor inline, otherwise the alternator will always be "excited" and the regulator will always be on, thus burning it out prematurely. If you think about it, it makes sense because most people doing LT1 swaps usually wire most of the harness into the bulkhead connector, and rarely touch the instrument cluster wiring... at least, that's what I've seen....

[dingleberry]

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/362824-fusebox-needed.html?posted=1#post2876452

This thread says I only need the fusebox if I am using the LS1 body harness(which I am not b/c I didn't buy one. :sillyme:

Looks like I might have a good spot opening up for the cold air intake. :p Though I am going to need to find a small winshield washer resovoir. Mine has disappeared.

[426HEMI]

Originally posted by dingle
What good would that have done? I am just happy I could get her home. I am just happy the hourly charging is done. The rest of this shit I can figure out, but my pockets are not deep enough to pay people to do all that.

It wouldn't do any good, cept for venting frustrations. The hourly charging is done, but the shops work should not be. Dammit that pisses me off to see someone treated like that.

They are just lucky it wasn't me that got that service. Their name would be complete shit after I was done with it.

[426HEMI]

Originally posted by dingle
I think they were just happy to get rid of the car. I don't think this was an easy project by any means and there was a lot of twists and turns to make a good movie plot.

The transmission location thing has me boggled though. From all the other threads I have read no one has ever meaned the offset before. :think:

No shop should be happy to get a car out of the garage before it is completely done. I cannot fathom why a shop would let a car roll out in that condition.

Sounds to me that the tranny issue is just another fuck up by them.

[BananaNutz]

i cant watch the video at work, but if i remember correctly they had the shifter handle bolting to the passenger side of the shfter base, With a t56 the handle should be bolted to the driver side of the base, might help with your clearances...

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by BananaNutz
i cant watch the video at work, but if i remember correctly they had the shifter handle bolting to the passenger side of the shfter base, With a t56 the handle should be bolted to the driver side of the base, might help with your clearances...

Check the pic ..
One of the guys on thirdgen said he has the same crossmember as me and used the driver side hole not the middle one. So I may need to look at moving that.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/139/139825/folders/112544/1891150shifterposition.jpg

[eboggs_jkvl]

Get it up here and we can put it in the rack and see. If the tranny can move over, it won't be difficult to do.

E:)

[Squid]

Wow... just wow...

i am at a loss for words.

[Victory]

Im curious what this guy MIKE@nextlevelperformance has to say about the wiring.

I can't imagine how any respectable shop could let a project leave their place looking like that, especially when theres a big thread about it on an extremely popular f-body site. That can't be good for business.

at least youve got your car back out of that hacks hands. And Im sure when you get it looking the way you want its going to be badass.

cool project none the less, just wish it could have gone alot smoother for you.

at least now you know who not to go to when you decide to build that motor up and stick a couple of turbos on it:cool:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by dingle
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/362824-fusebox-needed.html?posted=1#post2876452

This thread says I only need the fusebox if I am using the LS1 body harness(which I am not b/c I didn't buy one. :sillyme:

Looks like I might have a good spot opening up for the cold air intake. :p Though I am going to need to find a small winshield washer resovoir. Mine has disappeared.


I believe you are using the electric fans and they are controlled by the PCM. Therefore you probably have a connection from the PCM to the fusebox and on to the fans. The fuse box is used but for a small activity. If this is the only function of the fuse box, a different arrangement can possibly be constructed to turn on the fans for cooling the engine.

E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Victory
Im curious what this guy MIKE@nextlevelperformance has to say about the wiring.

I can't imagine how any respectable shop could let a project leave their place looking like that, especially when theres a big thread about it on an extremely popular f-body site. That can't be good for business.

at least youve got your car back out of that hacks hands. And Im sure when you get it looking the way you want its going to be badass.

cool project none the less, just wish it could have gone alot smoother for you.

at least now you know who not to go to when you decide to build that motor up and stick a couple of turbos on it:cool:

Lol, Mike's shop installed eboggs's turbos and installed his LS6. That's who I got my reference from. :p

[JohnnyLS2]

Wow man. I can't even view the video at work and it doesn't sound like I need to. :(

I can't imagine being a shop owner and letting a car leave in that condition. It sounds like you paid an arm and a leg. For them to charge you an hourly rate is rediculous. Was this their first LSX into a 3rd gen? Do they even know what they got themselves into? Probably not. It sounds like they bit off more than they could chew and they kicked out a heaping shit install job.

For the money you paid the engine should look fantastic, the wiring should be flawless, all of the guages should work, the tranny shouldn't be shifted so far over, and it shouldn't die.

This is one thing that pisses me off. I have seen numerous shops do a large install and not do proper test driving. I've had numerous issues with my car and its been a headache to isolate all of the small gremlins. However, you have way more than just gremlins. :mad: I had a bad ground in my stereo in my third gen and my amp and head unit would flicker. It eventually fried out my radio due to the bad ground.

I certainly hope they are no longer a site sponsor after that garbage. Maybe this will spawn a sub forum (may already be there) for people who can talk about positive and or negative in regards to site sponsors. Maybe it will help be a middle ground to resolve issues. This isn't like you banged on the car and torched the motor. This is very basic and they can't/couldn't figure it out.

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't even take the car back. I'd take it to a better shop after explaining the situation to see if they can fix the situation. I would then talk to Mike about having him cover or at least help cover the new costs associated with fixing their abortion of an install. There should be no work on your part.

I think we were all under the impression that this was a turn key installation. You shouldn't have to pray or quince everytime you turn the key when you want to start the car. :(

Good luck man and keep us informed.

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by dingle
Lol, Mike's shop installed eboggs's turbos and installed his LS6. That's who I got my reference from. :p

To be honest, most shops don't even build the motors. A lot of the site sponsors use outsourced engine builders. They quote you for the engine, they buy the parts, pay a small charge for the build and then drop the engine in which is fairly easy once you've done it hundreds of times.

Also, if I am not mistaken, but didn't your dad get a deal as being a site admin and being one of the first (if not THE first) to have the Incon TT system installed? Lots of shops will give deals to "first timers" as an R&D to see what the actual charge should be for future customers.

When I had my engine built it was done by an outside engine builder. All Speed, Inc. had to do was drop the motor in, reconnect the tranny, the wire harness, sensors, and then do a dyno tune. It makes it much more efficient for kicking out more customer cars. If they did everything in house I am sure the rate would be significantly higher as most shops don't have room for so many engines and blocks laying around.

As a matter of fact, the engine is the best part about the car. The rest of the stuff (non factory) has had small quirks here and there. I've even called the manufactorers and they seem like complete asshats when it comes to the most basic questions. :(

[eboggs_jkvl]

The only deal I got on the Incon was being first in line. I paid the full price for the parts and install for the turbo kit. That was at an entirely different shop and the turbo install didn't have anything to do with NLP.


Mike gave me a % off of the price for the LS1 to LS6 swap. I've still invested over $8K in the swap for the total cost of my "project". Not all $8K went to Mike. I replaced all of the extras (Alternator, starter, pullies, oil pans, head studs, valve covers, coils, wires, and the like to keep the LS1 "whole" and sealed up and running perfectly for the 83 conversion. (Dad's do shit like that for family).

So, my swap at NLP was drop an engine, install an engine. I'm still pursueing tuning as the turbos needed to be rebuilt and my boost lacked. THe rebuilt turbos are being installed today. I hope to have my car back by Wednesday.

E:)

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Mike gave me a % off of the price for the LS1 to LS6 swap. I've still invested over $8K in the swap for the total cost of my "project". Not all $8K went to Mike. I replaced all of the extras (Alternator, starter, pullies, oil pans, head studs, valve covers, coils, wires, and the like to keep the LS1 "whole" and sealed up and running perfectly for the 83 conversion. (Dad's do shit like that for family).

Opps, I thought Mike did the original incon install. :sorry:

[Boostaholic]

Originally posted by dingle
Lookie what I found out about the alternator!

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/engine-swap/276021-please-help-89-iroc.html?highlight=LT1+Alternator

After removing all stock wiring (Except headlights and blinkers) from my car and installing BigStuff3 I found that I needed to install this resistor before my alternator would function.

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by Boostaholic
After removing all stock wiring (Except headlights and blinkers) from my car and installing BigStuff3 I found that I needed to install this resistor before my alternator would function.

Which exact resistor? I see a whole crap ton of different types..
I see a Ohmite Silicon Coated Power Resistor, Metal Film Resistor, Thick Film Resistor, Thick Film Chip Resistor, Flameproof Metal Film Resistor, Metal Oxide Resistor, etc. etc.

From thridgen they said I could find the resistors at mouser.com but other than 470Ohms and 1watt I have no clue what I am looking for.

Also, am I correct in saying that the resistor going on the small wire and not the big thick wire that is directly connected to the + battery terminal?

[matt98ls1]

Originally posted by Mike@NextLevelPerf
We just quoted a job to start next month installing a 550HP 402 LS2 and M6 into a 1969 Corvette with suspension and brakes. It will run in the $55-60K area, but everything is new and leaving the chassis unmolested to go back to stock if need be.


Wow... that guy is in for a world of hurt if his Corvette turns out like this Camaro did.



Dingle: You're a better man than I am, because I surely would have killed someone if I paid that kind of money and received that "finished" product.

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by dingle
Opps, I thought Mike did the original incon install. :sorry:

The reason why his car runs is because he didn't do the install. :o


:wall:

Anyways, I figured you'd get a deal for being ad Admin. Just figured it was "professional courtesy". ;) I don't think its a good idea to piss off a website admin when a lot of business comes from that particular website. :help:

[JohnnyLS2]

Originally posted by matt98ls1
Wow... that guy is in for a world of hurt if his Corvette turns out like this Camaro did.

Dingle: You're a better man than I am, because I surely would have killed someone if I paid that kind of money and received that "finished" product.

:werd:

I feel bad for that Corvette owner. :(

[94BAMF]

Can we atleast get an "around" dollar figure of what you paid?

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by 94BAMF
Can we atleast get an "around" dollar figure of what you paid?

I paid Mike's shop 9300 and change. I think 6k-7k was labor, the rest was misc small parts. I bought most of the major parts myself so they are not included in this price(engine, tranny). When I get home I will post up in more detail(don't have the invoice here).

[94BAMF]

Originally posted by dingle
I paid Mike's shop 9300 and change. I think 6k-7k was labor, the rest was misc small parts. I bought most of the major parts myself so they are not included in this price(engine, tranny). When I get home I will post up in more detail(don't have the invoice here).

Just curious how the job was presented to you, or what exactly you told them you wanted? Did they tell you they were just gonna do the basics, get the engine in, and running, and you do the rest, or was it presented as a complete job that was going to be 99 percent finished when they were done?

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by dingle
Here is a video of some things I noticed after inspecting the vehical when I got home.
http://media.putfile.com/First_Impression_83_LS1


Mike, where are the A/C connections! My A/C won't even turn on!

That is horrible and not acceptable at all.
Did the original quote say something about a quality and professional install?
Because that is far from it, that is worse than any 'redneck' type of install I have ever seen.

Sorry man, hope you get it all sorted out. :(

[dingleberry]

Originally posted by 94BAMF
Just curious how the job was presented to you, or what exactly you told them you wanted? Did they tell you they were just gonna do the basics, get the engine in, and running, and you do the rest, or was it presented as a complete job that was going to be 99 percent finished when they were done?

Originally it was a complete install with me driving off in a finished car. As I stated before, Mike had to actually get in there and do some of the wiring because they were having some serious issues.

When I picked it up I knew the volt gauge, tach and fuel gauge were not working. I was prepared for that. The shifter was a surprise as was the A/C not being hooked up at all.

[thechef]

Originally posted by 94BAMF
Just curious how the job was presented to you, or what exactly you told them you wanted? Did they tell you they were just gonna do the basics, get the engine in, and running, and you do the rest, or was it presented as a complete job that was going to be 99 percent finished when they were done?

This i would like to know from your side and Mikes side to see if it matches

this kind of project take alot more time than people understand as "they" research on the internet and provide their own parts, which usually turn out to cause major set backs, also trying to get 2002 technology to work with 1983 and parts of 1987 is NOT just a plug and play but "so and so on this web site did it":rolleyes: ,

where did this wiring harness come from??? was it 100% intact or was it hacked out of a junkyard car that you bought used???

this is not the norm of a swap usually a person has a donor car and transfers a complete set up from one car to the other car which will make it go much smoother, rather than having to search out parts which are suposedly going to work

and with a custom swap like this going on why didnt you take a ride on many occasions to see the progress being made or see the problems the shop was having with your own eyes:confused: , this i just dont understand:help:

im not trying to take sides but both side of this story are at fault here as i see it, i had some more points but after reading 17pages and not taking notes i have forgotten some points,

i would also like to have seen the condition of the car before it went into the shop

good luck with your set up

[94BAMF]

Originally posted by dingle
Originally it was a complete install with me driving off in a finished car. As I stated before, Mike had to actually get in there and do some of the wiring because they were having some serious issues.

When I picked it up I knew the volt gauge, tach and fuel gauge were not working. I was prepared for that. The shifter was a surprise as was the A/C not being hooked up at all.

If nothing else, I think I would ask for part of your money back..

From my experience, doing drivetrain swaps like this is not easy, but considering what you paid in labor, and the finished product, I think they owe you some money back..

What was the original estimate for cost? Did they give you one?

[eboggs_jkvl]

He lives 1.5 hours awy.

NLP has the reputation of being quality on all work.

The harness was purchased intact from someone on the internet. I hardly think "hacked out of a junkyard" is the appropriate description. The guy was parting out his car.

Wiring in dash was bad and it was noted that new wiring would need to be run.

Engine was complete except for PCM, MAF, TB, Sensors and all parts were supplied or simple enough to order as needed. IF it was something really overlooked, it was handled quickly and shipped directly to NLP.

[94BAMF]

Originally posted by thechef
This i would like to know from your side and Mikes side to see if it matches

this kind of project take alot more time than people understand as "they" research on the internet and provide their own parts, which usually turn out to cause major set backs, also trying to get 2002 technology to work with 1983 and parts of 1987 is NOT just a plug and play but "so and so on this web site did it":rolleyes: ,

where did this wiring harness come from??? was it 100% intact or was it hacked out of a junkyard car that you bought used???

this is not the norm of a swap usually a person has a donor car and transfers a complete set up from one car to the other car which will make it go much smoother, rather than having to search out parts which are suposedly going to work

and with a custom swap like this going on why didnt you take a ride on many occasions to see the progress being made or see the problems the shop was having with your own eyes:confused: , this i just dont understand:help:

im not trying to take sides but both side of this story are at fault here as i see it, i had some more points but after reading 17pages and not taking notes i have forgotten some points,

i would also like to have seen the condition of the car before it went into the shop

good luck with your set up

I agree with alot of this, being a mechanic myself, many people responding here don't understand the kind of work involved in a project like this. I to would like to hear the other side of the story, but considering that side seems to be silent, makes you...:hmm: