LS1 GTO out-dynos old, modded goats...

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

in new issue of HPP.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/toc/

The '71 455 "HO" came the closest to matching the new one. The '71 had mods, though, including .030" over, healthy aftermarket cam, increased compression, 2.5" dual exhaust with Flowmaster mufflers (and even a power saving 3.07:1 axle ratio).

The '66 389 Tri-power (.030 over and a couple of other tweaks) managed ~ 211 RWHP. That's right in line with period chassis dyno tests.

Thank God for progress....

[Big Als Z28]

I just read that about an hour ago. HPP doesnt seem to like the GTO much.

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by Big Als Z28
I just read that about an hour ago. HPP doesnt seem to like the GTO much.

HPP is primarily an "old school" performance magazine. The new GTO blows the old ones away across the board (with the exception of "looks.") It's almost as though they perceive the new car as nothing more than a (viable) threat to the old "legend."

Even that '71 455 (7.4 liters) "HO" couldn't match the peak output of the LS1 @ the rear wheels, despite the fact that it was running increased compression (vs stock), a lot more cam (vs stock), was .030" over (462 cubes vs the LS1's 346 cubes) and runs a dual, 2.5" exhaust system with FLOWMASTERS and no cats....

[mrgto]

99Z1LE is in the HOUSE!

[Big Als Z28]

seems as if mrgto's name was hi-jacked.

[nikivee]

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/0406pon_shootout_09_z.jpg

Cool. A friend of mine's car made the shootout. Wayne Garrison's T37. 10.91@118

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

How many engine MODIFICATIONS and how many cubes (462?) is that old crate running?

The only INTERNAL engine mod to this 346 cid, LS1 powered, modern performance car is a cam.

http://members.cox.net/harddrivin1le/CAMONLYLS1.JPG

[nikivee]

I don't know and I don't care.

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by nikivee
I don't know... :Pow:

[nikivee]

:rolleyes: :ahole:

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by nikivee
I don't know...

Here, let me help you:

http://members.cox.net/harddrivin1le/455oldsand340MOPARCSERE.JPG

[nikivee]

Oh come on man. We've been thru this over at ls1.com. You've already posted that over there last year. Don't you remember? Why rehash the same crap over here. Who cares? I don't. Why do you?

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by nikivee
Oh come on man. We've been thru this over at ls1.com. You've already posted that over there last year. Don't you remember? Why rehash the same crap over here. Who cares? I dont'. Why do you?

Nope...I never ONCE posted that on LS1.COM. In fact, I just scanned that article for this first time last week!

The only reason you NO LONGER care is because you've been proven wrong. In anything resembling TRULY "stock" form, the overwhelming majority of those old "muscle car" engines were dogs by modern standards.

A select few (generally the rarest and most exotic) made decent power (~ 350 - 385 SAE NET HP). The vast majority of them couldn't hope to match the output (or the fuel economy) of a bone stock, 5.3 Liter VORTEC GM truck engine.

:drive:

226 SAE NET HP for a "365 HP" Old 455.

The new 3.0 liter V6 Accord I just leased makes 240 SAE NET HP on 87 octane fuel....

[nikivee]

LOL!!!! Seriously I don't care. So why did you change your name from 99Z1LE Bobby? Get a life. Goodnight :loser:

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by nikivee
LOL!!!! Seriously I don't care...Get a life.

Get an ENGINE!:cool:

226 HP from a "365 HP" Olds 455...:crutch:

My Accord's V6 is but ~ 40% the displacement, meets/exceeds 50 state emissions requirements, gets 21/30 MPG-EPA and makes MORE power (240 SAE NET) on 87 octane fuel!!!!
:kneel:

[Steve04GT]

Originally posted by mrgto
99Z1LE is in the HOUSE!

:werd:

We need to assemble the Cheese Kingdom again. :D

[Bird of Fire]

Whattup bobby? Still got nothing better to do than try and antgaonize a couple of people with old muscle cars? Well go ahead and play the "I have a vastly superior engine" card and we'll all play the "We're still going to the track and still faster in the 1/4 mile than you" card. Fair? Fair. Good, now STFU. :thumbdn:

[mrgto]

And yet he still won't race me. LOL

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by Bird of Fire
Whattup bobby? Still got nothing better to do than try and antgaonize a couple of people with old muscle cars? Well go ahead and play the "I have a vastly superior engine" card and we'll all play the "We're still going to the track and still faster in the 1/4 mile than you" card. Fair? Fair. Good, now STFU. :thumbdn:

Off Topic....:rolleyes:

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by mrgto
And yet he still won't race me. LOL

OFF TOPIC.

Which GTO produced the most RWHP in the referenced article?

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/toc/

Answer: The only one that was equipped with the smallest engine (346 cid) and was STOCK.:eek:

That's why Pontiac calls the new GTO "THE MOST POWERFUL GTO EVER.":2guns:

[nikivee]

That's why Pontiac calls the new GTO "THE MOST POWERFUL GTO EVER

Is that why it turn's 14's in the 1/4 mile?

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by nikivee
Is that why it turn's 14's in the 1/4 mile?

That's what it turns in the SLOWER tests (just as many vintage GTOs turned FIFTEENS).

Someone on here posted a low 13 @ ~ 107 MPH result.:eek:

And remember, the new GTO is HEAVIER than most of the older ones....

[mrgto]

Technology is a wonderful thing. And FYI, the 455HO in a Tempest was one of the quicker later model of the 1970's cars made. GTO was heavier more luxury car by then.

Gonna go up to NED this year? I'll race your camaro or your accord. :D

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by mrgto
Technology is a wonderful thing. And FYI, the 455HO in a Tempest was one of the quicker later model of the 1970's cars made. GTO was heavier more luxury car by then.

Gonna go up to NED this year? I'll race your camaro or your accord. :D

A recent issue of HPP claimed the 71 455 HO was THE FASTEST (bone stock) GTO (up to that time).

So you're right about that. The 71-72 455 HO Tempest was a very fast (and very STRIPPED) car by early 70s standards.

So what?

All that proves is how SLOW the other ones really were.

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by nikivee
Is that why it turn's 14's in the 1/4 mile?

Originally posted by Big Als Z28
yeah, NickV got a 13.3 @ 104 with just dropping the spare tire and jack I belive? :confused:

Is that YOU he's referring to?

A vintage GTO of that weight could only DREAM about running like that in stock form.

[mrgto]

Originally posted by LSENGINESROCK
:confused:



A vintage GTO of that weight could only DREAM about running like that in stock form.


Well, since the LS1 can auto adjust timing and fuel delivery, a vinatage GTO should be allowed to be toyed with as far as timing and jetting.

If you read Pete McCarthy's book, he took his '64 and did those things to it and he was in the low to mid 13's. I will look it up when I get home.

[UBDSLO1]

I happen to like "both" GTOs, but for me, I like the new one, mainly for technology, and the "non tuning issues." that's just me though.

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by mrgto
Well, since the LS1 can auto adjust timing and fuel delivery, a vinatage GTO should be allowed to be toyed with as far as timing and jetting.

If you read Pete McCarthy's book, he took his '64 and did those things to it and he was in the low to mid 13's. I will look it up when I get home.

No he wasn't. And if he claims otherwise than he is a LIAR.

Those cars made ~ 180 RWHP. Add ~ 15 for the "tweaks" you just suggested.

"Level 1" Royal cars weren't even that quick on OPEN MANIFOLDS and SLICKS.

Hang up the "magic tuning" thing. You seem to imply that resizing jets and playing with the timing curve could add ~ 60% to peak output. In reality, it might add 5%.

http://www.angelfire.com/on/geebjen/roadtest.html


1) 65 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.90 posi 13.98 @ 101.78 mph

Addtl times: 0-30 mph : 2.6 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.4 sec

Options: None listed Wt : 3550 (curb) Magazine : PHR (4/65)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Tires were M&H cheater slicks. Runs were made with exhaust pipes disconnected from the manifolds. Driver was Jack "Doc" Watson. The ¼ mile time was with one person aboard, the 0-30 and 0-60 were with two aboard. This was a 2 car test, the other car being a Royal prepped 2+2 (see previous test).

2) 65 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.11 posi 14.5 @ 100 mph

Addtl times: 0-40 mph : 3.6 sec, 0-60 mph : 5.8 sec, 0-100 mph : 14.5 sec.

Options: PB, P/S Wt : 3590 (curb) 3920 (test) Magazine : CL (5/65)

Notes: Tires were 7.75x14. Purpose of this test was to order a 65 GTO the way Car Life testers would want it. An extremely long list of options included Rally 1 wheels, transistorized ignition, metallic brakes, and exhaust splitters. Times listed above are with 2 people on board. Strangely enough, the Royal Pontiac crew was consulted on how to order this GTO, and tests were performed on an identical 65 GTO to the one the Car Life crew ordered. The other car was simply tuned (no Bobcat kit), and the exhaust pipes were disconnected at the manifolds. The air cleaners were removed, and 9.0x14 M&H cheater slicks installed. With Dick Jesse of Royal Pontiac driving, the car ran 14.06 @ 102.14 mph.

3) 66 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 3.55 posi 14.05 @ 105.14 mph

Options: P/S, P/B Wt : 3620 (test) Magazine : CD (3/66)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 1). Car also had Ram Air system. Tires were Firestone 7.75-14 Super Stock 500 street tires. This test pitted the 66 GTO against 5 other Musclecars: Olds 442, Buick GS 400, SS 396 Chevelle, Ford Fairlane GT/A, and a Mercury Comet Cyclone GT. To level the playing field, Firestone supplied the same tires to all participants. This was a long, fascinating article that compared these Musclecars on the strip as well as the road course. The manufacturers were in tremendous competition with other, and it was indeed amusing to see the lengths Ford and Mercury went through to "bend the rules". Ironically, Ford's over-prepared entries lost out in just about every category.

4) 66 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.33 posi 13.04 @ 106.75 mph

Options: P/S, P/B Wt : 3478 (ship) 3485 (curb) Magazine : CC (12/65)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were M&H cheater slicks. Car had Ram Air system. Car was fully prepped by Royal, and Milt Schornack drove this GTO to very impressive times.This car was shown on the cover of Car Craft, in beautiful Tiger Gold with a black top, red inner fenders, and a tiger tail coming out of the back of the hood. The Royal preparation was fairly extensive, with dual electric fuel pumps, drag shocks, air bags, Doug's headers (open for test), and different suspension bushings. This car was also ordered (from Pontiac) with a minmum of sound insulation, which shaved additional weight.

[mrgto]

Pssst, bobbles, his times were for a road test. YOu can stop posting them here.

And I have no reason to doubt him. He was racing when you were in diapers and I was a distant gleam in my parents eye.

[LxExGIxExRxCK]

Originally posted by mrgto
Pssst, bobbles, his times were for a road test. YOu can stop posting them here.

And I have no reason to doubt him. He was racing when you were in diapers and I was a distant gleam in my parents eye.

Yeah; he probaby tested the same '64, 421, stripped to the bone Jim Wangers "ringer" car that C&D tested. THAT one ran low 13s.:rolleyes: Too bad the customers couldn't order a car like that one.....

You weren't born when C&D tested that car, yet Wangers LIED about it for the next ~ 35 years!

http://www.angelfire.com/on/geebjen/roadtest.html

66 GTO 389 TP (360 hp) 4-speed, 4.33 posi 13.04 @ 106.75 mph

Options: P/S, P/B Wt : 3478 (ship) 3485 (curb) Magazine : CC (12/65)

Notes: Royal Pontiac prepared (level 2). Tires were M&H cheater slicks. Car had Ram Air system. Car was fully prepped by Royal, and Milt Schornack drove this GTO to very impressive times.This car was shown on the cover of Car Craft, in beautiful Tiger Gold with a black top, red inner fenders, and a tiger tail coming out of the back of the hood. The Royal preparation was fairly extensive, with dual electric fuel pumps, drag shocks, air bags, Doug's headers (open for test), and different suspension bushings. This car was also ordered (from Pontiac) with a minmum of sound insulation, which shaved additional weight.

[mrgto]

I know I have heard it all before. Go tell Pete he is a liar, not me or anyone here.

[DrEvyl]

Stop trolling on this site with your magazine racing.