Well, more news on the Camaro...uh...Chevelle?

[mrgto]

Well the Camaro will be on a Zeta Lite platform, but the interesting thing is here they are mentioning that the Chevelle name plate is not ruled out. But it says this platform is a done deal. THE CAMARO IS ON THE WAY!!!

Source Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108247
Chevrolet Show Car to Have "Zeta Light" Platform
Date Posted 11-29-2005

DETROIT — The sports car prototype that Chevrolet will unveil in January at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit will ride on General Motors' Zeta Light architecture and is almost certain to have a Corvette engine. GM would love to have a rear-wheel-drive coupe or 2+2 vehicle to challenge the Ford Mustang and forthcoming Dodge Challenger, and the prototype will show how GM thinks it should handle the matter. GM would also like its Mustang fighter to arrive as soon as possible.

Media are reporting that GM will call the prototype "Camaro," but supplier sources familiar with the automaker's plans say the vehicle might instead resurrect the Chevelle nameplate.

"All the magazines are assuming they're going to copy the '69 Camaro, and I think that's highly likely," a well-placed source told Inside Line. "But there's also a chance they could copy the '70 Chevelle, in which case they'll call it Chevelle."

Much of the naming issue also depends on the status of GM's agreement with the city of Sainte-Thérèse, Quebec, where the company used to build Camaros and Firebirds. GM agreed not to use the names Camaro and Firebird for a period of time following the discontinuation of those models.

But whatever its name, a rear-drive Chevy coupe off the Zeta Light platform is a done deal. Supplier sources say the first two Zeta Light offerings will be a sedan and a coupe, both from Chevrolet. The Zeta Light architecture is a version of GM's Zeta architecture, modified to take out cost and accommodate longer wheelbases. GM would price the Chevy coupe closer to the Mustang than the Corvette, giving it (most likely) a Corvette engine but leaving out the kind of sophisticated performance systems and upscale interior the Vette has.

What this means to you: If you're a muscle car fan, get excited: the field is about to get bigger.

[NviouSS]

link don't work

[mrgto]

Originally posted by NviouSS
link don't work

It does now.

[Checkmate]

duhhh,
it will be camaro done deal.

The Chevelle rumor was started by the media and they continue to fuel it.

[HOTCIVIC]

Originally posted by Checkmate
duhhh,
it will be camaro done deal.

The Chevelle rumor was started by the media and they continue to fuel it.

This kinda makes me wonder though:

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5166085#post5166085

Unless I'm just reading what he's saying wrong. :hmm:

[Doug Harden]

There's no debate....it's the Camaro and Edmunds info is incorrect in a few ways.

It's Sigma lite (Zeta is not a platform but a method).

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by HOTCIVIC
This kinda makes me wonder though:

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5166085#post5166085

Unless I'm just reading what he's saying wrong. :hmm:


It's wrong...

[HOTCIVIC]

Originally posted by Checkmate
It's wrong...

Is this "right" then?

http://www.lifeinwidescreen.com/siihp/Gen5_Z28%20stripes.jpg

:drool:

[Doug Harden]

Originally posted by HOTCIVIC
Is this "right" then?

http://www.lifeinwidescreen.com/siihp/Gen5_Z28%20stripes.jpg

:drool:

Check out a thread on CZ28.com 5th gen board called something like "My take on the 5th gen..."...a couple of "people" have said it left them "surpised" and said it was "very nice".... ;)

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by HOTCIVIC
Is this "right" then?

http://www.lifeinwidescreen.com/siihp/Gen5_Z28%20stripes.jpg

:drool:

Me likey. :yup: :cool:

[Johnny_Pappis]

but the thing is this i want a camaro lots of other people i know want a camaro.....and its a much wider known name then the chevelle i beleive it will be a camaro

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Johnny_Pappis
but the thing is this i want a camaro lots of other people i know want a camaro.....and its a much wider known name then the chevelle i beleive it will be a camaro

It will be a Camaro. There is no doubt about that.

There will be a RWD sedan coming from Chevy. I suppose Chevelle could be one of the possible names for it. :dunno:

[fastolman]

So what has GM done to fix the Camaro name issues that it had?

[Doug Harden]

Originally posted by fastolman
So what has GM done to fix the Camaro name issues that it had?

ALL settled :D :drive:

[fastolman]

Originally posted by OrigZ
ALL settled :D :drive:

Thanks but I was kinda looking for a little more info than that. Any specifics?

[triggerjerk]

Lets just hope it gets the LS2 neutered as little as possible and isn't priced too high or weighs too much :xfings:

[Gomez909]

Originally posted by fastolman
Thanks but I was kinda looking for a little more info than that. Any specifics?

From what I remember, GM had to pay a large sum of money, which they did; and they couldn't use the name "Camaro" for something like 7 years, which is why it's thought to debut around '09.

[Doug Harden]

Originally posted by fastolman
Thanks but I was kinda looking for a little more info than that. Any specifics?

Originally in Popular Hotrodding magazine...

http://www.camaro.nu/news/camaro07.html

[Potent68]

Originally posted by OrigZ
Originally in Popular Hotrodding magazine...

http://www.camaro.nu/news/camaro07.html

I hope it doesn't look like that. :(

Tom

[Potent68]

Although this pic is pretty hot....
http://popularhotrodding.com/features/0312phr_fifthgen_04_z.jpg

Tom

[Potent68]

And this one.....:drool:

http://www.sub500.com/gm/c/z28.jpg

Taken from the concept competition here....

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=52

Tom

[HiImSean]

Originally posted by Potent68
And this one.....:drool:

http://www.sub500.com/gm/c/z28.jpg

Taken from the concept competition here....

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=52

Tom

:werd: that one looks sick

[Doug Harden]

Originally posted by Potent68
I hope it doesn't look like that. :(

Tom

I was linking to info on the Canadian issue....not necessarily the look of a rendering.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by triggerjerk
Lets just hope it gets the LS2 neutered as little as possible and isn't priced too high or weighs too much :xfings:

Lets just hope it has more than an LS2. ;)

[ULTIMTEORANGESS]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Lets just hope it has more than an LS2. ;)

ls7! :drool:




http://media.putfile.com/C6-Z06-vs-03-Cobra

[explosionhobbit]

Originally posted by HOTCIVIC
This kinda makes me wonder though:

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5166085#post5166085

Unless I'm just reading what he's saying wrong. :hmm:

he was saying "notice i didn't say camaro" because someone (whut?)responded to his post by calling that a camaro event... he just wanted to clarify that he was not the one who said camaro. but he added a smiley to give us the impression that it would be a camaro without actually saying it. at least that's how i read it... and when that post was there, it made more sense to see it that way. so... i would say it's a pretty safe bet that it will be called camaro.

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by Potent68
And this one.....:drool:

http://www.sub500.com/gm/c/z28.jpg

Taken from the concept competition here....

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=52

Tom

That isn't a concept, that is a ARTIST rendition.

Anyway Scott said not even close to that so....

[Frcefed98]

Too bad, that rendering is awesome.

[Potent68]

Originally posted by Checkmate
That isn't a concept, that is a ARTIST rendition.

Anyway Scott said not even close to that so....

No shit. Excuse my mis-wording there. :sillyme:

Clearly if it was from a competition, it doesn't mean it's going into production. I was just citing that I liked that particular idea.

Tom

[Real Slow Zoh]

It will no doubt be Camaro. However, I wouldn't rule out a Chevelle as well:hmm: The future is looking very very bright:fluffy:

By the way, since the new Mustangs are still slower than a 93 Camaro, I wonder how much of an assraping the new Camaro will give the Stang:headbang:

Let the internet racing begin:p

[HiImSean]

here's something to look forward to, this was said over at ls1tech...
this is talking about G10


Quote:

I'll be there. It'll also be the first time that I see the next gen Camaro. I would imagine Scott Settlemire will have it on hand.


i doubt he'd have one that soon. he only brought the c6 and zo6 out the spring before their release in the last summer/fall. we're gonna have to wait atleast another year for a 5th gen camaro to be there

Originally Posted by FBodFather

Quote:

i doubt he'd have one that soon. he only brought the c6 and zo6 out the spring before their release in the last summer/fall. we're gonna have to wait atleast another year for a 5th gen camaro to be there



Don't bet on it!

I have the date penciled in..........after all, we want your opinion of the concept car......now...that said......one of the VPs could decide to send it to Timbuktu......but I'm trying to have it there!

[HOTCIVIC]

Originally posted by HiImSean
here's something to look forward to, this was said over at ls1tech...
this is talking about G10



i doubt he'd have one that soon. he only brought the c6 and zo6 out the spring before their release in the last summer/fall. we're gonna have to wait atleast another year for a 5th gen camaro to be there





Don't bet on it!

I have the date penciled in..........after all, we want your opinion of the concept car......now...that said......one of the VPs could decide to send it to Timbuktu......but I'm trying to have it there!

Well ain't that some shit. :hmm: :cool:

[BishopSS]

<<<< The Last Camaro :story:


The new one will be the Chevelle. Cousin to the GTO as it should be. IMO

[HiImSean]

Originally posted by HOTCIVIC


Well ain't that some shit. :hmm: :cool:

some pertty good shit :yup:

[NONo443]

If its an Velle or Camaro, i'll still think about buying it, even more if its a Velle.

[Doug Harden]

Originally posted by BishopSS
<<<< The Last Camaro :story:


The new one will be the Chevelle. Cousin to the GTO as it should be. IMO

So why did Scott invite 250 Camaro & Firebird enthusiasts to the unveiling instead of 250 Chevelle enthusiasts? :badpost:

PS....Since I'll be there.....I'll look around and see if there's any Chevelle people there....:drive:

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by BishopSS
<<<< The Last Camaro :story:


The new one will be the Chevelle. Cousin to the GTO as it should be. IMO

Didn't we have this discussion before and you were pretty much proven wrong? How dense do you have to be?

[BishopSS]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Didn't we have this discussion before and you were pretty much proven wrong? How dense do you have to be?


Very.


Look, Scott invited passion filled people like ourselfs. We all want the same thing. A blue collar V8 two door.

BTW I havent been proven wrong yet. Give it time and I might. But not yet. Just as Scott can't say whats going to be under the cover.

It's all in fun none the less.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by BishopSS
Very.


Look, Scott invited passion filled people like ourselfs. We all want the same thing. A blue collar V8 two door.

BTW I havent been proven wrong yet. Give it time and I might. But not yet. Just as Scott can't say whats going to be under the cover.

It's all in fun none the less.

Dude, the hints are so obvious. I guess you haven't read all of his posts.

[BishopSS]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Dude, the hints are so obvious. I guess you haven't read all of his posts.

Most of them yes. I understand what your saying and Scott is being a good GM employee and telling you just what you want to hear. That is his job. I think even he would agree that the cat is still in the bag.

Untill then the fever of speculation will continue to rise. :cool:

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by BishopSS
Most of them yes. I understand what your saying and Scott is being a good GM employee and telling you just what you want to hear. That is his job. I think even he would agree that the cat is still in the bag.

Untill then the fever of speculation will continue to rise. :cool:

Why would he invite 250 Camaro/Firebird enthusiasts to a Chevelle unveiling? That just doesn't make sense. Its pretty obvious that all those people are expecting a Camaro to be unveiled and if its not, someone's going to have a lot of answering to do.

[Doug Harden]

I will guarangoddamnteeyou that it's not going to be a Chevelle...

There was an outside chance that a Chevelle was in the works before Zeta was canned......but not now.....but look for a Bel-Air or Caprice in addition to the new Camaro ;)

[Sheomet]

Originally posted by HOTCIVIC
Is this "right" then?

http://www.lifeinwidescreen.com/siihp/Gen5_Z28%20stripes.jpg

:drool: Wow!!! That is awesome! :drool: :woot:

[HOTCIVIC]

Originally posted by OrigZ
I will guarangoddamnteeyou that it's not going to be a Chevelle...

There was an outside chance that a Chevelle was in the works before Zeta was canned......but not now.....but look for a Bel-Air or Caprice in addition to the new Camaro ;)

Who do you work for? :hmm:

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Why would he invite 250 Camaro/Firebird enthusiasts to a Chevelle unveiling? That just doesn't make sense.

because they are GM fans maybe? i got the idea from some of scott's posts that it'll be a chevelle and not a camaro.

personally i don't give a crap what it's called. make it cool looking, make it have an interior closer to the gto than the departed f-body, give it the LS2, and they should have a winner. (at least in my book).

[Hunter]

Why would he invite Firebird enthusiasts? We got screwed up the ass.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Hunter
Why would he invite Firebird enthusiasts? We got screwed up the ass.

Because the Firebird was a Camaro platform mate. :sillyme:

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Berman
because they are GM fans maybe? i got the idea from some of scott's posts that it'll be a chevelle and not a camaro.


:faint:

[Hunter]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Because the Firebird was a Camaro platform mate. :sillyme:
Not what I meant. Camaro fans are getting their car back, but the Pontiac Firebird enthusiasts get zilch, unless you consider the GTO the replacement.

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally posted by Hunter
Not what I meant. Camaro fans are getting their car back, but the Pontiac Firebird enthusiasts get zilch, unless you consider the GTO the replacement.

i swear i've read where they said the firebird is dead for good :sadnana: i was always partial to the firebirds and ta's over the camaros. :shrug:

either way, a new camaro is a good thing and the lack of a new firebird can't ruin it :D

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Hunter
Not what I meant. Camaro fans are getting their car back, but the Pontiac Firebird enthusiasts get zilch, unless you consider the GTO the replacement.

Did it ever occur to you that a Firebird owner could be a Camaro fan as well? I've owned 4 firebirds and only 1 Camaro and I'm thrilled to death that a new Camaro is coming. Many of my friends that are firebird owners feel the same way.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Berman

either way, a new camaro is a good thing and the lack of a new firebird can't ruin it :D

:werd:

[jr. gong]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Did it ever occur to you that a Firebird owner could be a Camaro fan as well? I've owned 4 firebirds and only 1 Camaro and I'm thrilled to death that a new Camaro is coming. Many of my friends that are firebird owners feel the same way.

:werd:

To that

[Element]

Originally posted by Berman
i swear i've read where they said the firebird is dead for good :sadnana: i was always partial to the firebirds and ta's over the camaros. :shrug:

either way, a new camaro is a good thing and the lack of a new firebird can't ruin it :D

I remember the same thing, where they were saying the Firebird/Trans Am was the sort of car Pontiac didn't want to make anymore, as it'd sully their image of being a brand to compete with MB, BMW, ect. I thought it hilarious at the time, but evidently the Firebird is too redneck a car for Pontiac to bring back in their final days.

[Hunter]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Did it ever occur to you that a Firebird owner could be a Camaro fan as well? I've owned 4 firebirds and only 1 Camaro and I'm thrilled to death that a new Camaro is coming. Many of my friends that are firebird owners feel the same way.
No, that could never occur to anybody. :rolleyes:

What people seem to be unable to grasp is that people exist that Firebird fans can exist that are not partial to the Camaro.

Even Evyl has expressed disdain over this subject.
Originally posted by DrEvyl
Bob Lutz can bite my wang. :rant:

:wtf: good is a new Camaro if there is no Firebird to go with it? I know I won't be buying no Camaro.

[Doug Harden]

There are no more over-lapping products in GM's future lineup...short of a crossover or large truck.

GM can no longer afford to let every division, especially a money losing division like Pontiac have one of everything Chevrolet has.

Pontiac will get 4-5 models tops...and with the GTO, there's no money or room to have another V8, RWD coupe...none.

The Firebird almost always sold many less cars than the Camaro, but ate up a TON of the development budget (who knows how the hell this was allowed to happen) ...

Just look at the 4th gen...base models, Formulas, TA's, WS6's, Firehawks...all with different body panels and more options than the Camaro....the Camaro got the base body, a ground effects add-on and then a hood & rear spoiler with the SS. The Z/28 didn't get shit....but sold more than all the rest.

GM has limited $$ and Chevrolet is their money making division.

It's 2005 kids, not 1975.....

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Hunter
No, that could never occur to anybody. :rolleyes:

What people seem to be unable to grasp is that people exist that Firebird fans can exist that are not partial to the Camaro.

Even Evyl has expressed disdain over this subject.

Hey, I'm disappointed about their being no Firebird. But don't think for a second that the majority of Firebird owners won't have anything to do w/ a Camaro.

I'm willing to bet there are alot of f-body owners that have owned both products. Maybe some preferred the 4th gen firebird over the camaro or the 3rd gen camaro over the firebird.

They're just f-body fans and thats why they are inviting Camaro and Firebird owners to the unveiling. Okay? :rolleyes:

[ATF]

I sure hope it is a Camaro and not the Chevelle. I can't wait till January. This is exciting. :)

[Fbodfather]

Originally posted by BishopSS
<<<< The Last Camaro :story:


The new one will be the Chevelle. Cousin to the GTO as it should be. IMO

Nope.....wrong.

[426HEMI]

Originally posted by Fbodfather
Nope.....wrong.

:woot:


I was hoping you would pop up.

Damn I hope the future holds a heads up comparo.

Camaro
Challenger
Mustang

Damn that will be sweet.

[Blade]

Originally posted by 426Hemi
:woot:


I was hoping you would pop up.

Damn I hope the future holds a heads up comparo.

Camaro
Challenger
Mustang

Damn that will be sweet.

:werd:

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Fbodfather
Nope.....wrong.

:cool: :yay:

[Johnny_Pappis]

Originally posted by Fbodfather
Nope.....wrong.


:worship:

[BishopSS]

Originally posted by Fbodfather
Nope.....wrong.


Well I'll be...

:cool:


But your still stirring the pot. Bwahahahahah

:drive:

[code41ta]

Originally posted by Hunter
Not what I meant. Camaro fans are getting their car back, but the Pontiac Firebird enthusiasts get zilch, unless you consider the GTO the replacement.

One could always install a bodykit on one of the new Camaros and make it look like a Firebird :)

[Doug Harden]

Originally posted by code41ta
One could always install a bodykit on one of the new Camaros and make it look like a Firebird :)

That's funny because Scott often refered to the Firebird as "a Camaro with the Pontiac styling option"......LOL. ;)

[Real Slow Zoh]

Originally posted by Fbodfather
Nope.....wrong. :headbang:

Now STFU Bishop:fu:

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by Fbodfather
Nope.....wrong.

Yep, knew that. But some of these people think they know more than you. :lol:

Another good piece of info you said that makes me grin:

The concept you see in January bears no resemblence to the Bel Air......or the SS concept for that matter.




:D

[Cobra Commander]

I don't care if it bankrupts GM, I want a new Firebird.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Cobra Commander
I don't care if it bankrupts GM, I want a new Firebird.

:umm:

[Blade]

Honestly, what makes a Firebird?

Different interior and exterior plastic panels -- that's it. :)

[Chevcamaro18]

Originally posted by Blade
Honestly, what makes a Firebird?

Different interior and exterior plastic panels -- that's it. :)

You just have to add 20 holes and vents to your Camaro and sell cocaine.:D

[Hunter]

Originally posted by Blade
Honestly, what makes a Firebird?

Different interior and exterior plastic panels -- that's it. :)
So... you want the ugly chick, or the hot chick with the exact same personality?

[426HEMI]

Originally posted by Hunter
So... you want the ugly chick, or the hot chick with the exact same personality?

Good analogy.

[BishopSS]

Originally posted by Real Slow Zoh
:headbang:

Now STFU Bishop:fu:


Nice going :newbie:

You realy add quality :rolleyes:

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Hunter
So... you want the ugly chick, or the hot chick with the exact same personality?

Most of us think the Camaro is not an ugly chick, so crappy analogy.

[Mako]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Most of us think the Camaro is not an ugly chick, so crappy analogy.


Ugly fish?

:wall:

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Mako
Ugly fish?

:wall:

What about the early 4th gen, 3rd gen, 2nd gen, or the 1st gen. Even if you felt that way about the 98 - 02 style, there are 3.5 other generations to look at. My understanding is that the new gen car will have all generations in its styling. There were some beautiful Camaro's over its 35 year run.

[DrEvyl]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Did it ever occur to you that a Firebird owner could be a Camaro fan as well? I've owned 4 firebirds and only 1 Camaro and I'm thrilled to death that a new Camaro is coming. Many of my friends that are firebird owners feel the same way.

I would probably not buy a Camaro, I'm a Firebird guy. I'm thrilled to death that there is a new Camaro coming... but I'm not really into Camaros, to be honest. Yes, I know that they've pretty much been the same car for the last 23 years... but appearance wise, they are two different vehicles, and stigma wise they are two different vehicles as well.

I feel kinda cheated that there's no Firebird. WTF. The GTO is not a replacement for the Firebird, I hate to say it... and it needs to be a lot more aggressive to attract me as a buyer. They can bring back the Camaro, but why not the Bird? Is Pontiac serious in this whole "we wanna be the American BMW" stuff? :boggled:

If GM puts out a new 'Bird, they have a guaranteed sale sitting right here. No question, I will buy one.. I don't care if I have to sell my sister into slavery to get one, I will buy it.

A new Camaro... :hs: Dunno. I might buy one, but the whole time I will be wishing it was a Firebird.

[Real Slow Zoh]

Originally posted by BishopSS
Nice going :newbie:

You realy add quality :rolleyes: Nah, I just LOVE people who get on LS2 acting as if they know EVERYTHING when in fact they couldn't know less. Nice job:uhok:

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by DrEvyl
I would probably not buy a Camaro, I'm a Firebird guy. I'm thrilled to death that there is a new Camaro coming... but I'm not really into Camaros, to be honest. Yes, I know that they've pretty much been the same car for the last 23 years... but appearance wise, they are two different vehicles, and stigma wise they are two different vehicles as well.

I feel kinda cheated that there's no Firebird. WTF. The GTO is not a replacement for the Firebird, I hate to say it... and it needs to be a lot more aggressive to attract me as a buyer. They can bring back the Camaro, but why not the Bird? Is Pontiac serious in this whole "we wanna be the American BMW" stuff? :boggled:

If GM puts out a new 'Bird, they have a guaranteed sale sitting right here. No question, I will buy one.. I don't care if I have to sell my sister into slavery to get one, I will buy it.

A new Camaro... :hs: Dunno. I might buy one, but the whole time I will be wishing it was a Firebird.

I understand that some prefer the Firebird over the Camaro and would only buy a Firebird. But as for inviting BOTH Camaro AND Firebird enthusiasts to the unveiling is not a slap in the face to those Firebird owners. A Firebird owner, such as myself, can be a fan of both cars. I see that as GM doing there best to support this market and reach out to the disgruntled Firebird owners.

Hopefully, Pontiac produces a GTO that has wider appeal. I can understand why they are not bringing a Firebird back, as its basically the same car and takes development money from the Camaro. I'm disappointed but I'm just as interested in a Camaro as I am the Firebird.

[Element]

Originally posted by MapleRed
I understand that some prefer the Firebird over the Camaro and would only buy a Firebird. But as for inviting BOTH Camaro AND Firebird enthusiasts to the unveiling is not a slap in the face to those Firebird owners. A Firebird owner, such as myself, can be a fan of both cars. I see that as GM doing there best to support this market and reach out to the disgruntled Firebird owners.

Hopefully, Pontiac produces a GTO that has wider appeal. I can understand why they are not bringing a Firebird back, as its basically the same car and takes development money from the Camaro. I'm disappointed but I'm just as interested in a Camaro as I am the Firebird.

There's the difference though. how many of the Firebird guys who were invited like both? I can respect a Camaro, but I'd never buy one. If they invite a bunch of Poncho guys who say piss on a Camaro, they're likely to piss the Pontiac guys off even more. Best just to say "those who enjoyed the f-body in all iterations were invited" rather than "Firebird enthusiasts."

However, given the trend towards bland, retro-styled cars, I'm almost glad GM won't be bringing back the Firebird/Trans Am. The 4th gen was the best, I think (aside from the 67/68 ram air cars), and I'd be worried that the Firebird would turn into just another name, resurrected for the "Retro Wars". The Firebird was with the Vette in never having a gap in production from 1967 (or the first year...my history isn't great) up until 2002. It died well...don't turn it into another Nova.

[Frcefed98]

Originally posted by DrEvyl
I would probably not buy a Camaro, I'm a Firebird guy. I'm thrilled to death that there is a new Camaro coming... but I'm not really into Camaros, to be honest. Yes, I know that they've pretty much been the same car for the last 23 years... but appearance wise, they are two different vehicles, and stigma wise they are two different vehicles as well.

I feel kinda cheated that there's no Firebird. WTF. The GTO is not a replacement for the Firebird, I hate to say it... and it needs to be a lot more aggressive to attract me as a buyer. They can bring back the Camaro, but why not the Bird? Is Pontiac serious in this whole "we wanna be the American BMW" stuff? :boggled:

If GM puts out a new 'Bird, they have a guaranteed sale sitting right here. No question, I will buy one.. I don't care if I have to sell my sister into slavery to get one, I will buy it.

A new Camaro... :hs: Dunno. I might buy one, but the whole time I will be wishing it was a Firebird.

:werd: I feel the same way. We are tried and true Pontiac guys here in my household. I'm very excited that a new Camaro is just around the corner, but thats where the excitement ends. I like the Goat, but its no Firebird. If Pontiac can manage to produce a 'bird, they have another sale right here, GUARANTEED...just like ol Evyl said. If not, i'll keep modding my 98 to keep ahead of whats introduced so I can represent what was a great time in Pontiacs/GM's history.

J:D

[Johnny_Pappis]

ok so lets take a bet how long till someone makes a "firebird" body kit for it :lol:

[Frcefed98]

:mad: :lol:

[DrEvyl]

Originally posted by Frcefed98
:werd: I feel the same way. We are tried and true Pontiac guys here in my household. I'm very excited that a new Camaro is just around the corner, but thats where the excitement ends. I like the Goat, but its no Firebird. If Pontiac can manage to produce a 'bird, they have another sale right here, GUARANTEED...just like ol Evyl said. If not, i'll keep modding my 98 to keep ahead of whats introduced so I can represent what was a great time in Pontiacs/GM's history.

J:D

The only reason I wish they DON'T make a new Firebird is so that my cars will become more valuable.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Element
There's the difference though. how many of the Firebird guys who were invited like both?

Probably all of them. I believe they went and picked people that would actually want to see and appreciate going to the unveiling.

[BishopSS]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Probably all of them. I believe they went and picked people that would actually want to see and appreciate going to the unveiling.

No matter what it's called.

Even Beretta :lol:

Sorry bad flashback about the last Camaro replacement.

[Chevcamaro18]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Most of us think the Camaro is not an ugly chick, so crappy analogy.

Its a good analogy but the Firebird would be the dressed up prostitute with too much make up on:D

[DrFrag]

Originally posted by Element
The Firebird was with the Vette in never having a gap in production from 1967 (or the first year...my history isn't great) up until 2002.

actually thats not true, there is no 1983 model year corvette ;)

[426HEMI]

Originally posted by DrEvyl
I would probably not buy a Camaro, I'm a Firebird guy. I'm thrilled to death that there is a new Camaro coming... but I'm not really into Camaros, to be honest. Yes, I know that they've pretty much been the same car for the last 23 years... but appearance wise, they are two different vehicles, and stigma wise they are two different vehicles as well.

I feel kinda cheated that there's no Firebird. WTF. The GTO is not a replacement for the Firebird, I hate to say it... and it needs to be a lot more aggressive to attract me as a buyer. They can bring back the Camaro, but why not the Bird? Is Pontiac serious in this whole "we wanna be the American BMW" stuff? :boggled:

If GM puts out a new 'Bird, they have a guaranteed sale sitting right here. No question, I will buy one.. I don't care if I have to sell my sister into slavery to get one, I will buy it.

A new Camaro... :hs: Dunno. I might buy one, but the whole time I will be wishing it was a Firebird.

Gotta agree. D dub and I were talking about this a while back. Hopefully they are just not showing their hand yet. But I doubt it.

[FirehawkNS]

Most you firebird people are strange! I don't care if it was a camaro or a firebird they bring back. As long as they bring one back, I would have either one!!

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by FirehawkNS
Most you firebird people are strange! I don't care if it was a camaro or a firebird they bring back. As long as they bring one back, I would have either one!!

:werd:

[Johnny_Pappis]

Originally posted by FirehawkNS
Most you firebird people are strange! I don't care if it was a camaro or a firebird they bring back. As long as they bring one back, I would have either one!!




i lie em both but personally im more of a camaro fan id buy a t/a

[HOTCIVIC]

Originally posted by FirehawkNS
Most you firebird people are strange! I don't care if it was a camaro or a firebird they bring back. As long as they bring one back, I would have either one!!

:werd: I'm more of a Camaro fan but if they brought back the T/A instead of the Camaro, I wouldn't complain - I'd be lookin at buyin that T/A. :yup:

[ATC350X]

Originally posted by FirehawkNS
Most you firebird people are strange! I don't care if it was a camaro or a firebird they bring back. As long as they bring one back, I would have either one!! :werd:


I like both and would take any back..

[WCFields]

Originally posted by pass dimeo
actually thats not true, there is no 1983 model year corvette ;) Mostly true, but....Officially, There were no 1983 Corvettes. There were forty seven 1983 Corvettes made but none were ever sold. The National Corvette Museum has the only 1983 known at this time.

[ThumperWS6]

quoted from chirp third.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by el ess1
Welllll........that is good that you aren't throwing your anger at the majority of us that have kept the faith and have no desire to see the pictures.

Now, with that said, you just let ANOTHER freebie out of the bag that this car will be on tour! WHERE? Dates/places please! Was hoping to get to somewhere in the southeast this winter/early spring...

I always believed the Camaro would return...I'm very pleased. Even without seeing it. My joy sensors are already tingling....




I would never throw my anger at the majority........yup, I blew a gasket last evening......but I hope you understand that anger was directed at a couple of people......how could I be mad at the people who have remained steadfast?

As to Concept show locations..........tentative schedule (and please don't link to this comment.....OK to cut and paste, tho....)

Detroit
Chicago
Cleveland
New York
Dallas
Atlanta

........and I'll know within a few days if it may make an appearance at Los Angeles. (not the car in Detroit, but rather a 'foam'.....looks like a real car....smoked windows...no drivetrain)

Also:
Fbody Gathering - Atlanta
Fbody Reunion - Bowling Green

Hoping for:
Camaros at Carlisle

[explosionhobbit]

fbodfather posted this on cz28.com:

Some thoughts on the pictures........

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First.....thank you Jason and Chris for 'doing the right thing"........you could have increased your web traffic by a huge margin yesterday, but you once again have proved to many many people that you are --both of you-- a class act. I'm truly grateful.

To my fellow enthusiasts. I think I'm pleased, for the most part, as to the comments I'm hearing. Yes, there will always be a few that have harsh words....that's to be expected. I still look forward with great relish to watching the faces and expressions of my fellow enthusiasts as they see the concept in person for the first time....(you have no idea of how much I look forward to it.......)

Now.........why am I upset? (let's forget the Corp. position for a moment, shall we?)

How many times have you met someone......and your first impression was "Well, if he/she wasn't

>all sweaty/dressed poorly/bad-hair-day/20 pounds overweight/bad mood/ --insert anything bad here -- <

...........he/she would be a knockout...........

See what I mean? First impressions are oh-so important. We did not get the chance to control a first impression. The pictures you saw are obviously not of a finished product.

WE won't go into the financial impact this will have on GM....but suffice to say it will.

We do want your input.......but there's a proper way to get that. Your input, believe it or not, has been somewhat compromised in that, again, you did not see a finished product.

Moreover, it started a firestorm of controversy on several sites..and people started flinging insults back and forth.....and in a few cases, some close friends were summarily flamed beyond recognition. Because of someones' (that's plural, by the way) poor judgement, people are now mad at each other. That is even MORE unfortunate.

So........yup.......I am beyond angry at the GM or contract employee that allowed these photos to be posted. I suppose I will eventually lose some of my anger at a few webmasters that also played a part in this scenario.

All that said..........I hope you like what you saw. It is not the finished concept...and moreover, you can never adequately or fairly judge a product by a picture......esp. one like you saw. I hope that each of you will get to see the concept in person as it tours the country to several autoshows and events.......and that you are even more excited and enthused.

I hope that there's a lot of good that comes from this unfortunate experience......and that now, most, if not all of you can plainly see that 'The Future Indeed Looks Bright!"

--and--

"constructive criticizm as well as positive comments are always welcomed.

Constructive means just that. It is OK to say "I don't like it and this is why--..>insert reasons here<"...........However, let's keep it clean. I really don't want to see people clobbering each other over differing opinions...we're all friends here, agreed???

And again I'm gonna repeat one of my mantras: Do not put forth final judgement before seeing it in person!"

--and--

"One last thing...the car is not retro.......it really isn't at all in person."


:shrug: just thought i'd throw this out there.

[DrEvyl]

Originally posted by FirehawkNS
Most you firebird people are strange! I don't care if it was a camaro or a firebird they bring back. As long as they bring one back, I would have either one!!

If you had a Camaro and a Firebird sitting next to each other, and you asked me which one I wanted, I would take the Firebird every time. There are people who are like that with Camaros, as well.

Firebirds have a much different look than Camaros. They always have. The styling has always been a little less conservative, and we've always had more choices of models.. Camaro, Z28, SS.. versus Firebird, Formula, Trans Am, WS6, Firehawk.

As I said... I like that the Camaro is back... but it just doesn't seem right without a Firebird... and maybe I'll buy a Camaro, but the whole time I'll be wishing it was a 'Bird.

[explosionhobbit]

Originally posted by DrEvyl
If you had a Camaro and a Firebird sitting next to each other, and you asked me which one I wanted, I would take the Firebird every time. There are people who are like that with Camaros, as well.

Firebirds have a much different look than Camaros. They always have. The styling has always been a little less conservative, and we've always had more choices of models.. Camaro, Z28, SS.. versus Firebird, Formula, Trans Am, WS6, Firehawk.

As I said... I like that the Camaro is back... but it just doesn't seem right without a Firebird... and maybe I'll buy a Camaro, but the whole time I'll be wishing it was a 'Bird.

i've always wanted a camaro since long before i could drive. i've always liked both cars, but preferred the camaro. i will say that the ws6 birds look mean and i thought about buying one. but, overall i like the SS look better. i wouldn't mind having one of each, though. :D if the bird was coming back instead of the camaro, i would buy it depending on how it differed from the gto. i just hope my SS holds together until the new camaro makes it to production. hurry GM!!!!!

[ThumperWS6]

Originally posted by DrEvyl
If you had a Camaro and a Firebird sitting next to each other, and you asked me which one I wanted, I would take the Firebird every time. There are people who are like that with Camaros, as well.

Firebirds have a much different look than Camaros. They always have. The styling has always been a little less conservative, and we've always had more choices of models.. Camaro, Z28, SS.. versus Firebird, Formula, Trans Am, WS6, Firehawk.

As I said... I like that the Camaro is back... but it just doesn't seem right without a Firebird... and maybe I'll buy a Camaro, but the whole time I'll be wishing it was a 'Bird.

Don't you win some kinda bet or something?

[DrEvyl]

Originally posted by w02thumper
Don't you win some kinda bet or something?

Not one of the Stang trolls had the balls to bet me. :dunno:

They knew that I was more than likely on the money, and it looks like I was. I even picked the concept car that was the F-body in disguise.

http://www.carphotoalbums.com/photos/data/859/111999-Pontiac-GTO-Concept-FA-med.jpg

[ThumperWS6]

Its close...atleast the back end anyways.

[EVILFACE]

Originally posted by DrEvyl
If you had a Camaro and a Firebird sitting next to each other, and you asked me which one I wanted, I would take the Firebird every time. There are people who are like that with Camaros, as well.

Firebirds have a much different look than Camaros. They always have. The styling has always been a little less conservative, and we've always had more choices of models.. Camaro, Z28, SS.. versus Firebird, Formula, Trans Am, WS6, Firehawk.

As I said... I like that the Camaro is back... but it just doesn't seem right without a Firebird... and maybe I'll buy a Camaro, but the whole time I'll be wishing it was a 'Bird.

They are siblings. I've always seen the Camaro as the brother (straight, clean lines) and the Firebird as the sister (curved wanting attention).

I lean more to the Camaro, but I love them both. Doesnt matter to me which comes back, as long as at least one of them does. I do think we'll see a Firebird come along sometime.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by DrEvyl
Not one of the Stang trolls had the balls to bet me. :dunno:

They knew that I was more than likely on the money, and it looks like I was. I even picked the concept car that was the F-body in disguise.

http://www.carphotoalbums.com/photos/data/859/111999-Pontiac-GTO-Concept-FA-med.jpg

And don't forget the 99 Nomad concept. Look at the front end on that one. ;)

[CamaroSCG]

Originally posted by warpedrotors
i've always wanted a camaro since long before i could drive. i've always liked both cars, but preferred the camaro. i will say that the ws6 birds look mean and i thought about buying one. but, overall i like the SS look better. i wouldn't mind having one of each, though. :D if the bird was coming back instead of the camaro, i would buy it depending on how it differed from the gto. i just hope my SS holds together until the new camaro makes it to production. hurry GM!!!!!

That sums up my view point perfectly! I'll be there in Jan. :)

[DvBoard]

all an aftermarket company would have to do would be make some body panel replacements and you could have an aftermarket "firebird". for under 10 grand i bet that would definattly sell.

[Dirty 30]

Originally posted by Frcefed98
:werd: I feel the same way. We are tried and true Pontiac guys here in my household. I'm very excited that a new Camaro is just around the corner, but thats where the excitement ends. I like the Goat, but its no Firebird. If Pontiac can manage to produce a 'bird, they have another sale right here, GUARANTEED...just like ol Evyl said. If not, i'll keep modding my 98 to keep ahead of whats introduced so I can represent what was a great time in Pontiacs/GM's history.

J:D

[Dirty 30]

Originally posted by OrigZ
So why did Scott invite 250 Camaro & Firebird enthusiasts to the unveiling instead of 250 Chevelle enthusiasts? :badpost:

PS....Since I'll be there.....I'll look around and see if there's any Chevelle people there....:drive:

Why wasn't I invited?! :(

[FirehawkNS]

Originally posted by DrEvyl
If you had a Camaro and a Firebird sitting next to each other, and you asked me which one I wanted, I would take the Firebird every time. There are people who are like that with Camaros, as well.

Firebirds have a much different look than Camaros. They always have. The styling has always been a little less conservative, and we've always had more choices of models.. Camaro, Z28, SS.. versus Firebird, Formula, Trans Am, WS6, Firehawk.

As I said... I like that the Camaro is back... but it just doesn't seem right without a Firebird... and maybe I'll buy a Camaro, but the whole time I'll be wishing it was a 'Bird.

I guess since I have had both I don't care! I know they look very different and there are things I like about the birds better and things I like about the camaro better, but bird people bash like crazy and I for one do not understand it. I am dead even when it comes to which one I like better overall. I guess being an Fbody guy I just don't understand the I just like the bird guys.

[Johnny_Pappis]

Originally posted by FirehawkNS
I guess since I have had both I don't care! I know they look very different and there are things I like about the birds better and things I like about the camaro better, but bird people bash like crazy and I for one do not understand it. I am dead even when it comes to which one I like better overall. I guess being an Fbody guy I just don't understand the I just like the bird guys.


i like all f bodies :cool:

[NHRAMAN]

I will buy a T/A if they make one,as long as it doesn't look anything like the current Cavalier/GTO ......:D I suspect they will only make a Camaro to start due to lower pricing..:mad: :rolleyes:

[Boss Hogg]

GM said long ago that Firebird is dead. And it has been repeated many times over that it's not coming back, at least not anytime in the foreseeable future. I am not sure why since it has and always can be a rebodied Camaro. I am just passing along what I know. Firebird will not return.

[NailBomb]

wats the base model z28 lookin to go for?

[arnoli]

all is about market issue. they pull out, they bring back, and so on.