So, with GM laying off a buttload of peeps, where does that leave the Camaro? [Archive]

SuperchargedPrix

11-21-2005, 06:31 PM

GM is going under big time, i work for a company that GM used to own that at one time employed about 12,000 people, now we have maybe about 1200 that work there, and they sold the company to, i think they still own a little bit but not much and this year is like the first time in 15 years that we have seen a profit cause the new owners know how to work. So i think once the company gets back on rack that GM will buy it back since it has first buy back rights.

dave1w41

11-21-2005, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by J9_ls1
This makes me very sad, I can see the beancounters now saying they can't afford to bring it back. Any suggestions?

If they have a concept at the auto show, go up to the nearest person with a "GM" badge on and tell them in no uncertian terms that if they don't build this car you will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, buy a GM car again or allow anyone related to you to buy one without a fight.

Mrs. Mo

11-21-2005, 06:32 PM

GM should go under but the government will bail them out.

kasim

11-21-2005, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by MapleRed
I think Camaro is too far along to stop it. GM would have to be in real trouble if Camaro got canned at this point.

too far along?? they havent even had anything displayed at a car show yet on it.

I can easily see this happening (it getttng canned) The camaro is a niche car ... and unless its somehow a lot better than the mustang its gonna be hard to compete.

Affirmed

11-21-2005, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by J9_ls1
This makes me very sad, I can see the beancounters now saying they can't afford to bring it back. Any suggestions?

Yes dont blame the accountants

dahoy

11-21-2005, 06:34 PM

That is the problem, most production cars should be out by now for their target 07 model year...we hear crickets from the Camaro.

dave1w41

11-21-2005, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Miss Mo
GM should go under but the government will bail them out.

GM's effect on the economy stretches to the farthest corners of this country. GM going out of business as you seem to hope happens, would defnitely trigger a deep and long-lasting recession. You would know people that were out of work. Maybe even you yourself?

Affirmed

11-21-2005, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by dave1w41
GM's effect on the economy stretches to the farthest corners of this country. GM going out of business as you seem to hope happens, would defnitely trigger a deep and long-lasting recession. You would know people that were out of work. Maybe even you yourself?

It wouldnt trigger that long of a recession maybe a year long one at most.

Mrs. Mo

11-21-2005, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by dave1w41
GM's effect on the economy stretches to the farthest corners of this country. GM going out of business as you seem to hope happens, would defnitely trigger a deep and long-lasting recession. You would know people that were out of work. Maybe even you yourself?

I would not be out of work thanks to hurricanes I am very busy. I build things for a living.

And I know lots of people who lost there jobs when the airlines went under.

dave1w41

11-21-2005, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Affirmed
It wouldnt trigger that long of a recession maybe a year long one at most.

Bullshit. It would be 5-7 years and quite ugly. About two in 10 jobs in this country are depenent on the US auto industry which GM is about 50% of.

I know you were a baby at the time but ask your parents what Michigan was like in 1980.

I would not be out of work thanks to hurricanes I am very busy. I build things for a living.

No jobs = no money = no construction.

MapleRed

11-21-2005, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by kasim
too far along?? they havent even had anything displayed at a car show yet on it.

I can easily see this happening (it getttng canned) The camaro is a niche car ... and unless its somehow a lot better than the mustang its gonna be hard to compete.

I'm referring to the whole RWD program. Camaro doesn't exist w/out other RWD cars to latch onto. I believe that whole program is too far along to kill it now. If they did, I'm not saying they won't, GM is really in serious trouble.

I'm not sure if I would consider the 5th gen to be a niche vehicle. Supposedly, they are looking to sell 100k units. Those are not niche vehicle sales.

They are showing a Camaro concept at Detroit in January but supposedly the actual styling and many of the details of the car are almost done.

MapleRed

11-21-2005, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Affirmed
It wouldnt trigger that long of a recession maybe a year long one at most.

I doubt it. Think about all the suppliers that work w/ GM. How would that effect their businesses? If GM goes under, it would have far reaching effects.

MACGI 98 Z28

11-21-2005, 07:30 PM

A year long at the most, are you on crack? Try until about 2010 if it happened today.

Think of all the parts, engineering services, component parts, computers, computer hardware and software licenses, paper, supplies, desks, chairs, lightbulbs, tools of all kinds, that GM buys and all of its suppliers buy. GM going under would literally put several hundred suppliers out of business immediately. Probably 1/4 of those smaller businesses would be in Michigan. Those that didn't go out of business would have major cuts in payroll and production that would be PERMANENT.

The effect on Michigan's economy would be complete devistation. The State would literally go bankrupt itself overnight without the tax revenue from GM and its suppliers. Unemployment in the state of Michigan would probably go to somewhere near 15%-18%. The tax burden on the remaining businesses and people would have to increase in order to make up for the shortfall...this would also put additional people out of work.

BishopSS

11-21-2005, 07:37 PM

<<<<< The Last Camaro

:true:

Affirmed

11-21-2005, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by MACGI 98 Z28
A year long at the most, are you on crack? Try until about 2010 if it happened today.

Think of all the parts, engineering services, component parts, computers, computer hardware and software licenses, paper, supplies, desks, chairs, lightbulbs, tools of all kinds, that GM buys and all of its suppliers buy. GM going under would literally put several hundred suppliers out of business immediately. Probably 1/4 of those smaller businesses would be in Michigan. Those that didn't go out of business would have major cuts in payroll and production that would be PERMANENT.

The effect on Michigan's economy would be complete devistation. The State would literally go bankrupt itself overnight without the tax revenue from GM and its suppliers. Unemployment in the state of Michigan would probably go to somewhere near 15%-18%. The tax burden on the remaining businesses and people would have to increase in order to make up for the shortfall...this would also put additional people out of work.

Just like the media you like make shit sound like it will be alot worse than it really would be. Michigans economy is already devistated where have you been the last 10 years :lol: And lastly no people would move out of this state and find work elsewhere. Your notion of a 5 year recession because of GM going under isnt only laughable its absurd.

dave1w41

11-21-2005, 08:24 PM

Affirmed

11-21-2005, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by dave1w41
Michigan's economy isn't close to the level of devistation you are talking about. The entire country would be more like Michigan.
You are out of your mind if you think GM going out of business would be just a blip. It would be horrendous for the US economy. I guess if you want Lansing to look like Gary, Indiana.

Macgi is a lot more on the ball than you are.

I don't know how you come off calling this economy in Michigan "devistated". Again, ask your parents what it was like in 1980. Unemployment was TRIPLE what it is today in Michigan.

By the standards of Europe (Germany, France, Spain, Italy), Michigan has extremely low unemployment.

Yes it is we have the highest unemployment in the country and have had it for the last few years. Guess what GM going out of business as much as youd love ot think it would be some huge thing wont be that big World Com went under it didnt effect us for 5 years granted its not as big as GM but it didnt even effect us for 1 year. 1980s I know it was bad Ive heard the storys but even my parents and there friends and my aunts and uncles who have been life long Michigan residents have recently been saying it is looking even worse for michigan currently than it did then. If we have extremely low unemployment why is ours the highest in the country :boggled: And you cant use that trick as Europe uses a different equation to calculate unemployment as we do. Our equation should actually look more like theres.

MACGI 98 Z28

11-21-2005, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Affirmed
Just like the media you like make shit sound like it will be alot worse than it really would be. Michigans economy is already devistated where have you been the last 10 years And lastly no people would move out of this state and find work elsewhere. Your notion of a 5 year recession because of GM going under isnt only laughable its absurd.

Whatever. :rolleyes:

FWIW I have seen a few more things in my time than you have.

Michigan isn't in nearly as bad of shape now as you suggest. In October, its unemployment was 6.1% It was much worse before you were even born. Were you even around in 1980, 81 and 82 when unemployment here was something like 14-15%? By the way, it WAS calculated the same way then as it is today.

At most, even if you add in discouraged workers according to the BLS, the worst it could possibly be today is about 6.6%, so it isn't even close to as bad as it was in 1982.

http://www.michiganinbrief.org/edition07/Appendices/AppendixB_files/App-B_Econ_Base_Michigan.pdf

You simply have no conception of how much GM, and Ford contribute to the economy in our State or Country. I don't know what you think would happen if GM literally stopped functioning, but it would probably be the worst single business failure in the history of the United States. Along with it a huge chunk of manufacturing and other jobs outside GM would also dissappear.

Consider this fact, General Motors has more money crossing its balance sheet on an annual basis than the nation of France. Do you think if France sank into the ocean that it would have minimal impact on Western Europe?

If we have extremely low unemployment why is ours the highest in the country And you cant use that trick as Europe uses a different equation to calculate unemployment as we do. Our equation should actually look more like theres.

Because most of the country actually has very low unemployment and the FACT is that you haven't actually seen diddly in terms of the economy being bad in your lifetime.

Rich30N90W

11-21-2005, 09:33 PM

Minor mini-hijack.. but the talk about Michigan happening theoretically is happening in Louisiana right now.. 15-20% unemployment, bankrupt city and state, 150k+ jobs lost, etc etc. It isn't a pretty sight!

mrgto

11-21-2005, 10:39 PM

Detroit doesn't equal Michigan.

dave1w41

11-21-2005, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by mrgto
Detroit doesn't equal Michigan.

No but Flint, Lansing, Ypsilanti, Saginaw, Detroit, Lake Orion, Pontiac, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor, and Battle Creek pretty much equal Michigan.

Harmon Rabb

11-22-2005, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by MapleRed
I think Camaro is too far along to stop it. GM would have to be in real trouble if Camaro got canned at this point.

the camaro is neither high profit nor high sales. the camaro, truthfully, isn't all that important to their business.

mrgto

11-22-2005, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by Berman
the camaro is neither high profit nor high sales. the camaro, truthfully, isn't all that important to their business.

It depends on how good the next gen is. If the car is a hit then it could take away a LOT of sales(rental and private) from Ford with it's mustang.

WCFields

11-22-2005, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Berman
the camaro is neither high profit nor high sales. the camaro, truthfully, isn't all that important to their business. Exactly. There's a reason they didn't have one for 3 years now and it's has more to do with the actual importance of the specific vehicle than it does excuses like the St. Theresa issue, name issue, crash standards and so on. If they felt that strongly about the car it would never have went on hiatus.

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by Berman
the camaro is neither high profit nor high sales. the camaro, truthfully, isn't all that important to their business.

Their were statements made by some of the higher ups at GM over the last few years that finding a suitable platform for Camaro was a high priority. I believe it was Wagoner that made that statement. :think: Supposedly, its killing them that they are just giving this market to Ford.

Camaro is part of the new RWD program at GM and that is a priority right now. Judging by the hints being left by the insiders, GM would have to be really screwed up not to bring this car out in the next couple of years.

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by BlackLightn
Exactly. There's a reason they didn't have one for 3 years now and it's has more to do with the actual importance of the specific vehicle than it does excuses like the St. Theresa issue, name issue, crash standards and so on. If they felt that strongly about the car it would never have went on hiatus.

That was old GM and bad decisions made in the late 80's and 90's tying Camaro to the plant at St. Therese. There's a reason why the car was on hiatus for several years and it had alot to do w/ those bad decisions.

WCFields

11-22-2005, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by MapleRed
That was old GM and bad decisions made in the late 80's and 90's tying Camaro to the plant at St. Therese. There's a reason why the car was on hiatus for several years and it had alot to do w/ those bad decisions. I understand that...but if the car was a REAL, serious money maker they would've found a way lickety split to keep it in production regardless of what it took. It obviously was not high enough on the priority list so they let it cease in production, for who knows how long, it may be well over 5 years from the last 2002 that we see another rolling off the lines. THAT...is a long time.

WCFields

11-22-2005, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by MapleRed
Camaro is part of the new RWD program at GM and that is a priority right now. Judging by the hints being left by the insiders, GM would have to be really screwed up not to bring this car out in the next couple of years. Well they obviously are already screwed up by not even having one ready for 2006. Lost market share never to be regained.

Best case, 2007...5 years hiatus, could possibly be 2008-2009?

6 to 7 years.

That's pretty sad.

BishopSS

11-22-2005, 02:30 AM

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 02:34 AM

I think the plan was to have it out by 07 model year at the earliest. 08 - 09 is a possibility. FbodFather/RP said it is further along than a lot of people think. :shrug: The whole issue was finding a suitable platform to build it on.

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by BishopSS
It will be a Holden design call the Chevelle. Not Camaro.

IMO

And your opinion is wrong judging by what the insiders on the 5th gen forum on camaroz28.com. Its more a matter of when, not if.

They're showing a Camaro at Detroit in January and FbodFather is going through the trouble to invite people to the unveiling. Really, anyone that doubts that this car is going to be a reality is really dense.

BishopSS

11-22-2005, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by MapleRed
And your opinion is wrong judging by what the insiders on the 5th gen forum on camaroz28.com. Its more a matter of when, not if.

They're showing a Camaro at Detroit in January and FbodFather is going through the trouble to invite people to the unveiling. Really, anyone that doubts that this car is going to be a reality is really dense.

"On Monday morning, you will be transported to Cobo Hall in Detroit to take part in a very special press event where you'll view several new and exciting Chevrolet products."

No names mentioned, just generics. Scott has not let the cat out of the bag. And the bag has no Camaro in it.

IMO

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by BishopSS
"On Monday morning, you will be transported to Cobo Hall in Detroit to take part in a very special press event where you'll view several new and exciting Chevrolet products."

No names mentioned, just generics. Scott has not let the cat out of the bag. And the bag has no Camaro in it.

IMO

Yeah, Scott's been inviting all of the "have faith" brigade to Detroit to this special event to not unveil a Camaro. I guess all those people that are expecting to see a new Camaro their are gonna be disappointed. :rolleyes:

He's been pretty blunt about the new Camaro. You'd have to be REALLY DENSE.

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 03:59 AM

FYI, from the 5th gen forum on camaroz28.com.

Originally Posted by guionM
Nothing here should surprise anyone.

Wagoner made it clear for the past 6 months that there would be some serious plant closings, and not more than 3 months ago GM pegged layoffs over 25K.

No, this doesn't affect Camaro or Chevy's sedan.

Monte Carlo doesn't seem to destined to remain in production very long.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet on Grand Prix dying before Lecrosse. I'm guessing Impala and Lecrosse would go together though.

I see alot of very good news in this (as far as future products go).

1. SOMETHING has to replace the "W" cars. If these cars are dropping in 2008, that means something is replacing them in 2009.

2. This means GM will have more money to bring out these new products.

3. GM is finally going to discover flexible manufacturing. Alot of the replacements to these discontinued models will be made along side other models, or at least in the same plant.

4. Finally.... GM just spent ALOT of money at Oshawa. Anyone seriously thinking it's going to close?

Affirmed

11-22-2005, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by MACGI 98 Z28
Whatever. :rolleyes:

FWIW I have seen a few more things in my time than you have.

Michigan isn't in nearly as bad of shape now as you suggest. In October, its unemployment was 6.1% It was much worse before you were even born. Were you even around in 1980, 81 and 82 when unemployment here was something like 14-15%? By the way, it WAS calculated the same way then as it is today.

At most, even if you add in discouraged workers according to the BLS, the worst it could possibly be today is about 6.6%, so it isn't even close to as bad as it was in 1982.

http://www.michiganinbrief.org/edition07/Appendices/AppendixB_files/App-B_Econ_Base_Michigan.pdf

You simply have no conception of how much GM, and Ford contribute to the economy in our State or Country. I don't know what you think would happen if GM literally stopped functioning, but it would probably be the worst single business failure in the history of the United States. Along with it a huge chunk of manufacturing and other jobs outside GM would also dissappear.

Consider this fact, General Motors has more money crossing its balance sheet on an annual basis than the nation of France. Do you think if France sank into the ocean that it would have minimal impact on Western Europe?

Because most of the country actually has very low unemployment and the FACT is that you haven't actually seen diddly in terms of the economy being bad in your lifetime.

Yes you might of seen more than me but Ill take the words of my family and friends parents who have all lived here since they were born and a few of them used to work for the Big 3.

Michigan not in bad shape we have the highest unemployment in the country you can try to spin that anyway you want but its the fact. Where did I say unemployment was calculated differently today? :umm:

Alot of manufacturing jobs have already disappeared the rest leaving would be a moot point same as if they got sent over seas which is inevitable.

Lastly France has 2.2 trillion crossing its balance sheet a year so no GM doesnt have more than them :sorry:

Fbodfather

11-22-2005, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by Miss Mo
GM should go under but the government will bail them out.

OK.... a couple of thoughts.....but first, to address this post....I don't know you and you don't say too much...but I'm appalled that anyone could say 'GM should go under'. It leads me to think that either you made this comment without thinking..........or you perhaps don't understand the magnitude.

more about that in a moment.

I do not see the actions of the past day as delaying any vehicle line.

It is terrible to think that this number of plants will close.....tragic, really, but we live in a new world order. The playing field is NOT level........period. (go look at the tarriffs the European union places on any North American car shipped to Europe.)

We will close many plants......the good news? Most of the workers will be given retirement. Others will have the opportunity to go to work in another GM facility. But here's the kicker.......there are approximately 6 supplier jobs to every GM job......what happens to those people? It isn't pretty. Further, the economy in some of those locations will definitely feel the drag as the plant(s) are closed.

This is not limited to the auto industry....any business with legacy costs is facing a similar fate.......

I have not said we'd unveil a new Camaro at NAIAS....on the other hand, I don't want to have the daylights beaten out of me by some people who are attending. (I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that one.......)

It's late....I could go on about this subject for quite some time. I just hope that any of you reading this will rethink your position before posting that "GM should go out of business". (by the way...that goes for any large business in the U.S.)

426HEMI

11-22-2005, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by Fbodfather
OK.... a couple of thoughts.....but first, to address this post....I don't know you and you don't say too much...but I'm appalled that anyone could say 'GM should go under'. It leads me to think that either you made this comment without thinking..........or you perhaps don't understand the magnitude.

more about that in a moment.

I do not see the actions of the past day as delaying any vehicle line.

It is terrible to think that this number of plants will close.....tragic, really, but we live in a new world order. The playing field is NOT level........period. (go look at the tarriffs the European union places on any North American car shipped to Europe.)

We will close many plants......the good news? Most of the workers will be given retirement. Others will have the opportunity to go to work in another GM facility. But here's the kicker.......there are approximately 6 supplier jobs to every GM job......what happens to those people? It isn't pretty. Further, the economy in some of those locations will definitely feel the drag as the plant(s) are closed.

This is not limited to the auto industry....any business with legacy costs is facing a similar fate.......

I have not said we'd unveil a new Camaro at NAIAS....on the other hand, I don't want to have the daylights beaten out of me by some people who are attending. (I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that one.......)

It's late....I could go on about this subject for quite some time. I just hope that any of you reading this will rethink your position before posting that "GM should go out of business". (by the way...that goes for any large business in the U.S.)

The comment was way out of line, and I'm sure it was made without thinking.

As far as your personel safety is concerned, it's nice to hear that you will be safe. ;) Gonna be one helluva of a show.

Fbodfather

11-22-2005, 07:46 AM

thank you, Hemi, for the kind thought.

to further my post above........

One other thing to think about: The easiest thing, perhaps, for GM to do is go Chapter 11.......that would get rid of a whole lot of contracts.....but it would not be the RIGHT thing to do.

GM has about 19 Billion in cash.....that money is being spent on new products......Lutz and companys' influence is now being seen.....

GM has no intentions of going Chapter 11.......rather, cuts must be made in order to get plant capacity in line with market.

ULTIMTEORANGESS

11-22-2005, 07:49 AM

you can see theres more people behind GM than not on this board scott.

im looking forward to jan. and the future to see what GM comes out with so i can add to my already kickass collection.

:2thumbs:

426HEMI

11-22-2005, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Fbodfather
thank you, Hemi, for the kind thought.

to further my post above........

One other thing to think about: The easiest thing, perhaps, for GM to do is go Chapter 11.......that would get rid of a whole lot of contracts.....but it would not be the RIGHT thing to do.

GM has about 19 Billion in cash.....that money is being spent on new products......Lutz and companys' influence is now being seen.....

GM has no intentions of going Chapter 11.......rather, cuts must be made in order to get plant capacity in line with market.

Good to hear. Let's just get this ship righted and sail onward. From my username you might discern I am more of a Mopar fan, but in no way would I ever want to see GM fail. I want them to have great success so as to pressure the rest of the market into making better, more desirable vehicles. I can say one thing, I WILL be buying one of the new 2door MC's comming our way. I am pretty sure it will be the Challenger, but I am not so much of a loyalist as to write off the Camaro yet. I love the Challenger concept that has been leaked, but I will have to wait to see if it makes it into production, and if it retains the look and performance that this one should have.

On a similiar note, good job on GM for keeping the Camaro so tightly under wraps. No spy shots at all. Quite an accomplishment. And again, I thank you for your participation on this board, it certainly makes it more enjoyable and interresting.

dahoy

11-22-2005, 01:35 PM

If GM does not have a camaro CONCEPT 4 YEARS after they killed it, they are in alot of trouble. When they stopped the impala, they brought it back in a few years, and that was in production.

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Fbodfather

I have not said we'd unveil a new Camaro at NAIAS....on the other hand, I don't want to have the daylights beaten out of me by some people who are attending. (I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that one.......)

:D :cool:

Can't wait till January. Thats the best Christmas present of all. :yup:

BishopSS

11-22-2005, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by MapleRed
:D :cool:

Can't wait till January. Thats the best Christmas present of all. :yup:

:werd:

dahoy

11-22-2005, 03:09 PM

Whatever, dont wake up with a lump of coal in your stocking...

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by J9_ls1
If GM does not have a camaro CONCEPT 4 YEARS after they killed it, they are in alot of trouble. When they stopped the impala, they brought it back in a few years, and that was in production.

Yeah, but the Impala came back on a different platform. It was basically a twin to the Grand Prix and the Regal. Thats a different thing entirely.

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by J9_ls1
Whatever, dont wake up with a lump of coal in your stocking...

:sillyme:

Harmon Rabb

11-22-2005, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by MapleRed
Their were statements made by some of the higher ups at GM over the last few years that finding a suitable platform for Camaro was a high priority. I believe it was Wagoner that made that statement. :think: Supposedly, its killing them that they are just giving this market to Ford.

Camaro is part of the new RWD program at GM and that is a priority right now. Judging by the hints being left by the insiders, GM would have to be really screwed up not to bring this car out in the next couple of years.

it's important for their 'heritage,' not for their profitability. for it to truly matter, they'd: 1. need to be able to make money off them. as it stands, i believe the ONLY vehicles gm makes even $1 on are trucks 2. they'd need to sell as many as the stang does. can GM design a car good enough to out-sell the stang? sure, from 93-02 they had the better car - but it didn't out-sell the stang. i don't know if a camaro ever will. :sadnana:

in any case, i demand the following from GM:
1. make a new camaro. make it retro, looking like a '69. (say whatever you want, retro is working great for the new stang and no camaro has been more popular than the 69)
2. keep a solid rear. but a strong one, not some pos 7.5"
3. optional LS7. do i need to repeat myself? OPTIONAL LS7.
4. make that LS7 available with an auto. yes there are tons of M6 nuthuggers out there, but for those who would like the ultimate drag car... put a goddam auto with it.
5. see the interior of the GTO? that's the goal as far as quality.
6. have an option for nav.
7. price the LS7 version right with the GT500.

:nanadanc:

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Berman
it's important for their 'heritage,' not for their profitability. for it to truly matter, they'd: 1. need to be able to make money off them. as it stands, i believe the ONLY vehicles gm makes even $1 on are trucks 2. they'd need to sell as many as the stang does. can GM design a car good enough to out-sell the stang? sure, from 93-02 they had the better car - but it didn't out-sell the stang. i don't know if a camaro ever will. :sadnana:

I agree about it being important for their heritage. It can be profitable since it will be sharing engines/platform w/ other vehicles. Of course the sales have to be there. And why give Mustang the whole market?

MapleRed

11-22-2005, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Berman
in any case, i demand the following from GM:
1. make a new camaro. make it retro, looking like a '69. (say whatever you want, retro is working great for the new stang and no camaro has been more popular than the 69)
2. keep a solid rear. but a strong one, not some pos 7.5"
3. optional LS7. do i need to repeat myself? OPTIONAL LS7.
4. make that LS7 available with an auto. yes there are tons of M6 nuthuggers out there, but for those who would like the ultimate drag car... put a goddam auto with it.
5. see the interior of the GTO? that's the goal as far as quality.
6. have an option for nav.
7. price the LS7 version right with the GT500.

:nanadanc:

I agree w/ a retro 69 styled Camaro. I have absolutely no problem with that. As a matter of fact I'm a big fan of the new Stang's styling.

Don't know if I agree on the solid rear. They should at least be able to switch to an IRS if the competition does.

LS7? Cool, but a hi-po supercharged V8 would be fine too. :cool:

Option for a nav? I don't think its necessary. I think it should be an option for the GTO since that car is competing w/ mid $30k cars that have it as an option.

GMCtrk

11-22-2005, 10:33 PM

The LS7 will never see way into a camaro....

WCFields

11-22-2005, 11:36 PM

The supercharged LS2 can make as much power as an LS7, why bother with an expensive motor that needs a dry sump when the LS2 could be put in a car N/A and then S/C for a hi po version.

Fbodfather

11-23-2005, 12:08 AM

not true....GM makes money on many of its cars.....not just trucks.

Further, the 69 Camaro was the fifth most popular year in terms of sales/production......BUT.........it was a 16 month long model run!!! (you'll remember that the 1970 was referred to as a "70and a half" and was introduced in early Spring of 1970. Balancing that out, it was far from the most popular.

Most popular year? (ready for this???) 1979......282,000 Camaros produced.......in a double digit interest rate year and climbing gas prices and a recession to boot!

(don't feel bad, tho........I have to constantly remind many people at GM of this fact......some of them weren't even born yet!)

ill deuce

11-23-2005, 12:20 AM

i hope they make it into a contender to the mustang,not just in hp,but in high sales

hp would be nice though,just please don't overprice it again please.

to the average person a 97gt feels fast,they buy th mustang on style and ergonomics rather than ultimate speed

Cobra Commander

11-23-2005, 12:41 AM

Don't put IRS on it. Please.

ill deuce

11-23-2005, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Cobra Commander
Don't put IRS on it. Please. if more people would buy it with IRS,put it on there

Harmon Rabb

11-23-2005, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Cobra Commander
Don't put IRS on it. Please.

makes sense. the GTO is the upper level 'musclecar' GM has, and it has IRS.

Cobra Commander

11-23-2005, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by Berman
makes sense. the GTO is the upper level 'musclecar' GM has, and it has IRS.

the competition isn't putting that crap on theirs

wise move

MapleRed

11-23-2005, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by ill deuce
if more people would buy it with IRS,put it on there

:werd:

The supercharged LS2 can make as much power as an LS7, why bother with an expensive motor that needs a dry sump when the LS2 could be put in a car N/A and then S/C for a hi po version.

:werd:

triggerjerk

11-23-2005, 04:48 PM

GM is in worse shape now than when they KILLED it in '02.

I'm not "keeping the faith" in anything but the new CHALLENGER now:D

426HEMI

11-23-2005, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Fbodfather
not true....GM makes money on many of its cars.....not just trucks.

Further, the 69 Camaro was the fifth most popular year in terms of sales/production......BUT.........it was a 16 month long model run!!! (you'll remember that the 1970 was referred to as a "70and a half" and was introduced in early Spring of 1970. Balancing that out, it was far from the most popular.

Most popular year? (ready for this???) 1979......282,000 Camaros produced.......in a double digit interest rate year and climbing gas prices and a recession to boot!

(don't feel bad, tho........I have to constantly remind many people at GM of this fact......some of them weren't even born yet!)

I never would have guessed.

http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/1979/79b-1.jpg

http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/1979/79b-11.jpg

http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/1979/79b-10.jpg

http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/1979/79b-16.jpg

triggerjerk

11-23-2005, 09:47 PM

^^^
well back then there was no competition from imports, the mustang was weaker and all of the other musclecars were long gone.
No wonder it sold so well.
The environment in MUCH different today:rolleyes:

MapleRed

11-23-2005, 09:49 PM

Wow, they offered 6 different interior colors and tons of exterior colors. :cool: Now, for interiors its just black, grey, tan. Boring.

MapleRed

11-23-2005, 09:58 PM