ARE = Total loss after all

[Warbird]

As people have been following my 2 year many thousand dollar loss with ARE (the crooks of the west end) I have been updating regularly on the findings as they become evident.

nosguy has done an excellent job of trying to save me money and effort in the hopes that something was indeed done right. Today was the final knife in the proverbial back.

It was decided that to try to save time, effort and some money to fire up the car with the existing ARE engine in it. I was uncomfortable with the decision however, why not, I was game just to get her running. nosguy suggested we leak it down cylinder by cylinder and if everything was fine we'd go for it and if not we'd move on from there.

Upon removing the valve cover it was quickly learned that things weren't as they were supposed to be. My titanium retainers and locks had been replaced by heavier stainless parts, probably for another customers car. The heavier parts will cause excessive loading on the valve train. The springs seemed OK so the leakdown test was performed.

On a never run motor 5-8% is reasonable as the rings have not been sealed. Surprise, surprise please note the results

#1 38%
#3 41%
#5 40%
#7 40%

#2 45%
#4 80% ( TAP ON THE TOP OF VALVE AND GET 45%)
#6 42%
#8 40%

As you can see the results are horrible, and the motor must now come out to investigate the problem. I'm pretty sure I'm going to find a host of substandard used parts. To be safe I now have to measure each cylinder wall, re balance the whole rotating to be sure, and of course put in new rings. While we are at it the heads must be disassembled and checked the valves are tight and appear misaligned, I'm sure there is a valve job or many that must be fixed. My valves are supposed to be extreme duty, but there is no way to tell while the car is still together.

If I had tried to fire up an FI car under these conditions I would have quickly destroyed the engine, probably burnt the oil and smoked the rings and bearings in very short order. ARE at this junction would have blamed nosguy, I guess we figured it out first. :mad:

When the motor comes apart I will compare peice by piece to what I supposed to have, any beting man would love those odds that they are not. :rolleyes:

First off Dave DiLuca did not build this motor, I know who the two people at ARE who did, so no complaints or band wagoning about Sled28 please. :(

I would love to hear what the ARE spokemen have to say now about this. I have lost parts, had to redesign my turbo system and now to add insult to injury I've lost my motor :( This just gets better and better every day.

ARE you fucked me royally, I hope you truly enjoy the money I gave you for nothing in return.

On a brighter note nosguy and his company feel very badly about all of this and have made the effort to help out where possible. I guess I'm now back to square one.

I will continue to post up the findings as they appear. I truly hope you guys that got good service and parts because ARE is temporarily trying to make itself look good again remember the cost that many of us paid in theft of parts, money and broken cars.

Once again ARE thanks :rolleyes:

[CHRISPY]

uh oh, that isnt good. :(

Remember what I was saying to you about having a motor sit unfired for two years....

Maybe the cryo fubar'd the clearances. It wouldn't surprise me with the block, sleeves, rings and pistons being all different materials and reacting differently to cooling/expansion.

Sad news man, I'd just build a stock crank forged rod, forged piston setup and put it in the car. It'll hold 800RWHP and you'll be able to do it cheaply.

Good luck :(

Chris

[Brett H]

I'm really sorry to hear that you are having even more misfortunes with the car Paul though I will admit that at this point it doesn't surprise me much.

[Warbird]

Perhaps the cryo did something, however ARE recommended that as well :( Guess they should have checked before putting the motor together, probably didn't care :rolleyes:

I'll wait and see whats inside before deciding which route to take.

[Patman]

Sell the car and buy a 2006 Z06! :D

Seriously though, I'm sorry to hear that you got so royally fucked by ARE. :(

[Warbird]

Patman,

What do you think a shell with a turbo kit is worth :(

Economics say a Z06 is not on the horizon, I just bought a new truck, at least ARE never got their hands on it :D

[Rampant]

Sorry to hear that Paul.

Could it just be corrosion on the seats? The valves are SS but I think the seats are hardened steel which would corrode easily. Just a thought. sitting so long with humid air would cause corrosion, creating a leak.

Rampant

[Warbird]

Originally posted by Rampant
Sorry to hear that Paul.

Could it just be corrosion on the seats? The valves are SS but I think the seats are hardened steel which would corrode easily. Just a thought. sitting so long with humid air would cause corrosion, creating a leak.

Rampant

I wish Dale, unfortunately not the case. You can hear the air filling the crankcase as well :(

[SuperStar]

This post was reported. We are not just stating facts here. Keep it clean or it will permenantly disapear!!

[DrEvyl]

Yes.. Just the facts, please.

[Warbird]

Thank you Gentlemen.

It's hard not to feel angry about this situation and that's a fact.

[BAD35thSS]

Originally posted by CHRISPY
uh oh, that isnt good. :(

Remember what I was saying to you about having a motor sit unfired for two years....

Maybe the cryo fubar'd the clearances. It wouldn't surprise me with the block, sleeves, rings and pistons being all different materials and reacting differently to cooling/expansion.

Sad news man, I'd just build a stock crank forged rod, forged piston setup and put it in the car. It'll hold 800RWHP and you'll be able to do it cheaply.

Good luck :(

Chris

Bad luck Paul...

Chris, I don't buy the Cryo logic, my motor sits outside all winter and gets started, and run almost every few days...so I have been having natures cryo for last 2 years, and no ill effects...

[Warbird]

The cryo process is designed to cool everything very slowly in a uniform manner and takes into account different materials and densitys. The process takes about 48 hours from start to finish and is designed not to hurt parts.

I can't buy that argument ever, I have seen many cryoed engines. The only issues that I can see is that it wasn't put together properly in the first place.

We will have our answer in a short while in either case when the engine is apart and in pieces. I will post the parts list I was given and what actually came out of the engine. I already know my retainers and locks where changed.

[396LT4]

Originally posted by CHRISPY
Maybe the cryo fubar'd the clearances. It wouldn't surprise me with the block, sleeves, rings and pistons being all different materials and reacting differently to cooling/expansion.


How much cooling/expansion could have taken place? It's not like a hot running engine was dunked into a cold tank of water. Even pushing the car out of a warm shop to the relatively colder temperatures outside during the winter should not have done anything. The temperature change would have been gradual and not that severe, remember we are only talking about 40-50*F change at the most here. Geezus, what's the point of this cryoing if it can't survive something like that?

[Warbird]

396LT4, you're comment is dead on. The cryo process is designed to strengthen the block and stress relieve the entire structure. If the engine was assembled correctly in the first place the leakdown should have been pretty near zero on this block.

Tolerance should have gotten better, however once again we'll know the actual data shortly ;)

[w2wss]

sorry to hear about your misfortune in this. cars are intended to be fun and the performance business is one you trust in not getting screwed over. whoever it is ape, are, or anyone else its also a hit to the industry all together and i hate hearing about it. makes me sick. there are alot of good businesses out there. i hope things turn around for you paul. dont give up on the project it makes it all worth the while to finally have it complete. i would know. better luck to ya man:) that and i hope the moderators keep this thread open and evalute the sponsor in question along with previous problems

[Croaker]

Glad to see this thread back in the light of day.

As we've discussed Paul, I'm sorry about your engine. It seems like a lot of people have had smoke blown up their asses lately.

[romanss]

I am truly sorry to hear about your new findings. Hopefully it turns out better then you expect.

Roman

[TheSilverSurfer]

Paul--that sucks :mad:

[CHRISPY]

Originally posted by 396LT4
How much cooling/expansion could have taken place? It's not like a hot running engine was dunked into a cold tank of water. Even pushing the car out of a warm shop to the relatively colder temperatures outside during the winter should not have done anything. The temperature change would have been gradual and not that severe, remember we are only talking about 40-50*F change at the most here. Geezus, what's the point of this cryoing if it can't survive something like that?

LOL guys...

They had the whole motor FROZEN in a cryo tank. We are talking ULTRA ULTRA cold.

You heat the parts up, then expose them to vapors of liquid nitrogen, slowly cooling the parts to below 300 degrees F

Normally they machine a block, cryo it and test tolerances. Same with rods, pistons, etc. I have never heard of a complete motor cryoed that was fully assembled.

How can you control contraction and expansion of various metals in a tank with everything in the cryo at the same time?

[Chief Pontiac]

Damn Paul that sucks big time.:( I am glad I never had problems like that because someone would pay.:2guns: I hope things work out for you.

[bandit1]

Things like this really make me hesitant in getting work done on my car. I wanna go fast and I don't mind paying, but at the price you, Elmer, and everyone else has paid, a 13 second car is all I might ever have :(

[CHRISPY]

Originally posted by bandit1
Things like this really make me hesitant in getting work done on my car. I wanna go fast and I don't mind paying, but at the price you, Elmer, and everyone else has paid, a 13 second car is all I might ever have :(

Bolt ons tend to work well :)

6 speed with headers, 12 bolt and good clutch/tire can run low 12's high 11's.

Auto with big converter, headers and tire can run the same.

:beer:

[bandit1]

Thanks Crispy.... I'll get her there somehow :D

[1997Z4CSS]

Originally posted by bandit1
Things like this really make me hesitant in getting work done on my car. I wanna go fast and I don't mind paying, but at the price you, Elmer, and everyone else has paid, a 13 second car is all I might ever have :(


:werd: I have a 12 second car with a 13 second driver :p . I'm quite happy with my mild mods and will suit me well for AutoX and road racing if I ever get there! :rolleyes: . There is more to motorsports then drag racing my friend and hope you will try either a lapping day or autoX for yourself next season. There is tons of fun to have in a relatively stock Fbody. And all these stories this past year of you guys who had your builds go sour I'm sorry to read of this year and hope you can pull it together for next season and get the fun back into your cars! :drive: :drive: :drive:

[nosguy]

Paul WILL be taken care of the best we can and in a timely fashion his project will be back on track, Paul and I will make sure everyone is updated with the progress.
Sometimes things happen for a reason and I think that this is probably the case here, we might of had a real dissaster on our hands if we tried to dyno his car, and who knows we could of lost whats left.

Don't worry Paul we will help you anyway we can!

[Warbird]

Thanks nosguy,

we've talked about this situation many times, sadly it seems to keep getting worse. Even when you told me that ARE put my brakes on backwards, I just roll my eyes now.

The part that works for me and makes me feel good about this project is the constant communication you provide. I don't have to call you to get updates and when I do you always return calls. That alone is very refreshing and encouraging.

I guess pretty much starting from scratch means we will get it right this time. Your results this year alone with your other customer cars are testament to quality that you have provided.

I can only hope to unleash the beast in 06 :D

[mtlws6]

Originally posted by Warbird
I can only hope to unleash the beast in 06 :D

I can't wait to see your car next year.... actually I'll get to peak at it tomorrow, but that's not the same as it running.

[Warp10]

Originally posted by Warbird
Thanks nosguy,

we've talked about this situation many times, sadly it seems to keep getting worse. Even when you told me that ARE put my brakes on backwards, I just roll my eyes now.

The part that works for me and makes me feel good about this project is the constant communication you provide. I don't have to call you to get updates and when I do you always return calls. That alone is very refreshing and encouraging.

I guess pretty much starting from scratch means we will get it right this time. Your results this year alone with your other customer cars are testament to quality that you have provided.

I can only hope to unleash the beast in 06 :D


:eek: How can you put brakes backwards?

[CHRISPY]

Paul,

Now that you are rebuilding everything you should be able to set things up exactly as you want. :)

With a target of ~600-650RWHP on pump gas you now have the option to build the short perfectly tailored to it. ie: 8.0:1 comp, reasonable cam specs and be COMPLETELY reliable and streetable.

What is happening with the fuel system? Do you have the dual pump setup in the car or has that not been verified yet?

[nosguy]

Originally posted by CHRISPY
Paul,

Now that you are rebuilding everything you should be able to set things up exactly as you want. :)

With a target of ~600-650RWHP on pump gas you now have the option to build the short perfectly tailored to it. ie: 8.0:1 comp, reasonable cam specs and be COMPLETELY reliable and streetable.

What is happening with the fuel system? Do you have the dual pump setup in the car or has that not been verified yet?

That has not been verified yet Chris.

[nosguy]

Originally posted by Warp10
:eek: How can you put brakes backwards?

The rotor slots are going in the wrong direction, there for the rotors are on the wrong side of car.

[CHRISPY]

Originally posted by nosguy
That has not been verified yet Chris.

Are you going to sump the tank when you drop it Wade or keep with a dual internal 340 setup?

Cheers,
Chris

[nosguy]

Originally posted by CHRISPY
Are you going to sump the tank when you drop it Wade or keep with a dual internal 340 setup?

Cheers,
Chris

Providing it has a twin set up, I will use it and just put the proper size return on it:rolleyes:

[CHRISPY]

hehe good point

[Warbird]

Originally posted by CHRISPY
hehe good point

Yeah, kinda like opening a Christmas present from Hannibal Lecter :rolleyes:

[bandit1]

I've always been interested in autoX... however my 3200 stall might cause a few problems.... if the transmission ever pops I see a T-56 swap going in as a replacement :D :drive:


Originally posted by 1997Z4CSS
:werd: I have a 12 second car with a 13 second driver :p . I'm quite happy with my mild mods and will suit me well for AutoX and road racing if I ever get there! :rolleyes: . There is more to motorsports then drag racing my friend and hope you will try either a lapping day or autoX for yourself next season. There is tons of fun to have in a relatively stock Fbody. And all these stories this past year of you guys who had your builds go sour I'm sorry to read of this year and hope you can pull it together for next season and get the fun back into your cars! :drive: :drive: :drive:

[CHRISPY]

You get used to the stall on the autoX. My car has a TCI 3000 (3200 actual stall) and it was a lot of fun on the autox. Just have to learn how to modulate the throttle throughout the course :)

[Checkmate]

I'm sorry to hear about your motor Paul. :(

[bandit1]

Originally posted by CHRISPY
You get used to the stall on the autoX. My car has a TCI 3000 (3200 actual stall) and it was a lot of fun on the autox. Just have to learn how to modulate the throttle throughout the course :) Hmm, so it can be done :D Gonna have to make an autoX event next summer then :)

[Warbird]

Originally posted by Checkmate
I'm sorry to hear about your motor Paul. :(

I've recieved quite a few calls and notes about this and want to thank everyone for their support. It's too bad ARE can't step up to plate and at least try to make a deal, alas my best guess would be that they are as usual hidding their heads in the sand and just waiting for everything to go away.

Onwards and upwards, with a new motor at least they can't jump on the bandwagon claiming any credit for their work when the car is finally together.

All I really have to say is:

Nick Agostino
PeteK
MattG
Z07 (Jim at ARE)

I hope you never find yourself in this situation. May you all live in interesting times.

[Eugenio_SS]

Originally posted by Warp10
:eek: How can you put brakes backwards?
curved vane rotors have a direction... if hte vanes are straight, there is no directio per se.
The slot (if the rotors are slotted) do not dictate the direction of he rotor.

[WS6SPD]

KVR slotted rotors come with an instruction sheet displaying the proper direction of the slot pattern.

Maybe to display the proper direction of the cooling fins.



Originally posted by Eugenio_SS
curved vane rotors have a direction... if hte vanes are straight, there is no directio per se.
The slot (if the rotors are slotted) do not dictate the direction of he rotor.

[Eugenio_SS]

sorry to hear your misfortune, Paul... and unfortunately, I'm not surprised.
I know you'll at least be taken care of now. Looking forward to seeing your car running nice and strong.
Try to enjoy the winter season w/ your truck and then finally get to enjoy your Warbird.

[Eugenio_SS]

Originally posted by WS6SPD
KVR slotted rotors come with an instruction sheet displaying the proper direction of the slot pattern.

Maybe to display the proper direction of the cooling fins.
exactly, but the point is that it's the cooling fins that dictate the direction.
slots can be done in either direction (forgot the term used for both directions of the slot... damm)

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Eugenio_SS
exactly, but the point is that it's the cooling fins that dictate the direction.
slots can be done in either direction (forgot the term used for both directions of the slot... damm) Bi-directional. :dunno:

[396LT4]

Originally posted by Eugenio_SS
curved vane rotors have a direction... if hte vanes are straight, there is no directio per se.
The slot (if the rotors are slotted) do not dictate the direction of he rotor.

Not sure what you are trying to say but with respect to slotted rotors, the rotor in the top picture in this link should be mounted on the driver's side of the car so that it will rotate counter-clockwise when the car is going forward:

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/powerslot/

in this manner the gases that are produced are grabbed by the slot and travel away from the hub towards the edge of the rotor where the gases can exit. When installed "backwards" or on the wrong side of the car, the rotor as you are looking at it would be rotating clockwise, therefor trying to grab gases from the edge of the rotor which then travel towards the center of the rotor or hub and would be forced to try and exit where the slot ends, about an inch from the hub.

This is the situation of Paul's car, the rotors are installed on the wrong side of the car so they would be rotating "backwards".

[Hooper]

Originally posted by 396LT4
.... When installed "backwards" or on the wrong side of the car, the rotor as you are looking at it would be rotating clockwise, therefor trying to grab gases from the edge of the rotor which then travel towards the center of the rotor or hub and would be forced to try and exit where the slot ends, about an inch from the hub......... Right, Hillar. The total opposite what you want them to do.

I've decided I'm going to do all my own brake work. I enjoy it and they are easy to access. :D

[WS6SPD]

But you must also know which direction the cooling fins must turn.

If the fins are straight then it would only depend on the slot. If the fins are curved then you have to make sure they are turning in the right direction to grab air.

Originally posted by 396LT4
Not sure what you are trying to say but with respect to slotted rotors, the rotor in the top picture in this link should be mounted on the driver's side of the car so that it will rotate counter-clockwise when the car is going forward:

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/powerslot/

in this manner the gases that are produced are grabbed by the slot and travel away from the hub towards the edge of the rotor where the gases can exit. When installed "backwards" or on the wrong side of the car, the rotor as you are looking at it would be rotating clockwise, therefor trying to grab gases from the edge of the rotor which then travel towards the center of the rotor or hub and would be forced to try and exit where the slot ends, about an inch from the hub.

This is the situation of Paul's car, the rotors are installed on the wrong side of the car so they would be rotating "backwards".

[eboggs_jkvl]

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1478915#post1478915


Has a pretty pictue of the "vane" and the rotation. Sorry, it was in the tech forum. I know it was a strange place to look for an answer.

[JandJsTA]

Originally posted by 396LT4
Not sure what you are trying to say but with respect to slotted rotors, the rotor in the top picture in this link should be mounted on the driver's side of the car so that it will rotate counter-clockwise when the car is going forward:

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/powerslot/

in this manner the gases that are produced are grabbed by the slot and travel away from the hub towards the edge of the rotor where the gases can exit. When installed "backwards" or on the wrong side of the car, the rotor as you are looking at it would be rotating clockwise, therefor trying to grab gases from the edge of the rotor which then travel towards the center of the rotor or hub and would be forced to try and exit where the slot ends, about an inch from the hub.

This is the situation of Paul's car, the rotors are installed on the wrong side of the car so they would be rotating "backwards".


Oddly enough Hillar, Bear has them going the other way in E's link above :think: now I'm really confused.

http://www.baer.com/Support/TechTips.aspx?TechTipID=2


http://www.baer.com/Support/Images/Rotor2.jpg

[396LT4]

I went to that site as well Joe and what they don't have is a picture or diagram of the internal cooling vanes. It seems from what they are saying, that is the critical element.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by 396LT4
I went to that site as well Joe and what they don't have is a picture or diagram of the internal cooling vanes. It seems from what they are saying, that is the critical element.

:werd: Look at the internal vanes, not the fancy holes and slots in the rotor.

[396LT4]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
:werd: Look at the internal vanes, not the fancy holes and slots in the rotor.

that's my point, where is the picture showing the vanes? It says there is one at the bottom below the text but there is nothing there.

[JandJsTA]

Originally posted by 396LT4
I went to that site as well Joe and what they don't have is a picture or diagram of the internal cooling vanes. It seems from what they are saying, that is the critical element.

Cool, so the best thing would be to follow the intructions that come with your purchase if you are not familiar, or be able to view/see the internal cooling vanes not so much the slots on the outside, gotcha :thumbup:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by 396LT4
that's my point, where is the picture showing the vanes? It says there is one at the bottom below the text but there is nothing there.

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1478915#post1478915


It shows 2 rotors. Left rotor is a solid blank rotor, right rotor is drilled and slotted. The vanes in the right picture are the same as the left picture. The holes and slots are NOT taken into consideration.

[eboggs_jkvl]

One more try.

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115047&highlight=eboggsjkvl


The top picture shows the kit. If you look closely, the left rotor in the top picture would go on the driver's side of the car. The vanes can be see in that picture and other pictures below in the thread.

This is Driver's left front

http://www.ls2.com/boggs/pictures/wilwood/install005.jpg

E:)

[JandJsTA]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
One more try.

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115047&highlight=eboggsjkvl


The top picture shows the kit. If you look closely, the left rotor in the top picture would go on the driver's side of the car. The vanes can be see in that picture and other pictures below in the thread.

This is Driver's left front

http://www.ls2.com/boggs/pictures/wilwood/install005.jpg

E:)

Cool, so the slots on the outside can actually look like they are going the wrong way, it's the vane in the centre of the rotor that is important :thumbup:


.... sorry, one more :o .. do they all have directional vanes in the centre of the rotor, or is it just the higher end ones :confused:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by JandJsTA
Cool, so the slots on the outside can actually look like they are going the wrong way, it's the vane in the centre of the rotor that is important :thumbup:


.... sorry, one more :o .. do they all have directional vanes in the centre of the rotor, or is it just the higher end ones :confused:


My power slots had vanes, and I think the stockers do too.

[Warbird]

Guys to end the discussion, lets take this to a more basic level. My rotors were actually marked, left and right and I assume the manufacturer had a reason for doing that.

All supposition aside the right rotors were on the left and visa versa. Perhaps remedial english should be mandatory traing at ARE.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Warbird
Guys to end the discussion, lets take this to a more basic level. My rotors were actually marked, left and right and I assume the manufacturer had a reason for doing that.

All supposition aside the right rotors were on the left and visa versa. Perhaps remedial english should be mandatory traing at ARE.

Well, silly goose! Why didn't you say that before we :hijack: the thread! :p:p


Left is driver's side right is passenger side. Geeze, I can handle that one!

E:)

[Hooper]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Well, silly goose! Why didn't you say that before we :hijack: the thread! :p:p


Left is driver's side right is passenger side. Geeze, I can handle that one!

E:) That is correct, E. When deciding between right and left of a car you always take it from the driver's perspective. Not standing in front of the car facing it. At least, that's how they do it at GM. But what do they know? :p

[WS6SPD]

Warbirds situation aside, I believe I had this one pegged here ;)

My KVR's have curved fins, I noticed that these rotors feel pretty cool after normal driving relative to stock rotors! :D

Originally posted by WS6SPD
But you must also know which direction the cooling fins must turn.

If the fins are straight then it would only depend on the slot. If the fins are curved then you have to make sure they are turning in the right direction to grab air.

[SLED28]

nevermind.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by SLED28
Paul, without a doubt you will have a perfectly running car once its done because Wade & Fern are the best in Canada. Period. They do know their stuff.:) And the Warbird will rise from the ashes like a phoenix.
:drive:

[Warbird]

:hmm: ...............................................yup :D

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Warbird
:hmm: ...............................................yup :D Please forgive my poetic flourish. :D

[Eugenio_SS]

Originally posted by 396LT4
Not sure what you are trying to say but with respect to slotted rotors, the rotor in the top picture in this link should be mounted on the driver's side of the car so that it will rotate counter-clockwise when the car is going forward:

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/powerslot/

in this manner the gases that are produced are grabbed by the slot and travel away from the hub towards the edge of the rotor where the gases can exit. When installed "backwards" or on the wrong side of the car, the rotor as you are looking at it would be rotating clockwise, therefor trying to grab gases from the edge of the rotor which then travel towards the center of the rotor or hub and would be forced to try and exit where the slot ends, about an inch from the hub.

This is the situation of Paul's car, the rotors are installed on the wrong side of the car so they would be rotating "backwards".

I understand that... but it's not the slot that determines the direction of the rotor... it's what's inside the rotor.
http://www.stockcarproducts.com/images/1602527.jpg
Here, you see curved vane rotors... which causes the rotor to have a direction, making air move faster than straight fins.
if the fins are straight and not at an angle, ie pointing outwards from the center, the rotor is not directional.

what's on the surface of the rotor (slots) will not make it directional... you can have the slots both ways... doesn't matter

[Warp10]

I have powerlot rotors and they wer elable L and R and this is what the front left side looks like:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/meconse/Powersfr.jpg

[Lil Mac]

It's not the sluts damnit! :o

[denttech]

Originally posted by SLED28
Paul, without a doubt you will have a perfectly running car once its done because Wade & Fern are the best in Canada. Period. Amen Brudda!!!!!

[Warbird]

Well the performance and reliability record from "My current shop" has been impecable this year. I have been very impressed that all the cars built there, not only survived the whole season, but were built in a timely manner and out performed ARE's cars everywhere.

Coincidence?...................................... some say not :cool:

[rock1501]

Originally posted by Warbird
Well the performance and reliability record from "My current shop" has been impecable this year. I have been very impressed that all the cars built there, not only survived the whole season, but were built in a timely manner and out performed ARE's cars everywhere.

Coincidence?...................................... some say not :cool:
I couldn`t agree more and that is why they will be building my motor after Christmas ;)

[Hooper]

Originally posted by rock1501
I couldn`t agree more and that is why they will be building my motor after Christmas ;) Good call, Dave. :thumbup:

[Warbird]

There may be some updates this and I want to keep this near the top.

Lots of views in this, hopefully the message is getting out

[Hooper]

Rock1501's sig:

96z,a4,k&n cai,373 gears,mac headers,cutout,flowmaster catback,1.6 rr`s,3000 vig,et streets,cc305 cam,bone stock suspention and heads,stock tuning,
best time 12.52@109.12(1.74 60ft)

Soon To BE A 383 stroker


:think:Another LT1 383 stroker into the mix. Next summer should be interesting. :)

[396LT4]

would be interesting to see C Man and Rock run heads up (without the spray of course). ;)

[rock1501]

Originally posted by 396LT4
would be interesting to see C Man and Rock run heads up (without the spray of course). ;)
My car will have to run 11.90 on a 90 degree day with the cutout closed not 11.99 on a cold day with the cutout open:)

If I cant run that number there is no point in building the motor because the main purpose of the build is to run 11.90 class in O.S.C.A:drive:

[Ram Air T/A]

Originally posted by 396LT4
would be interesting to see C Man and Rock run heads up (without the spray of course). ;)
Without the spray ?????????. Then what's the point HAHAHAHA isnt the motor just for getting it off the trailer HAHAHA :drive:

[mtlws6]

Originally posted by Hooper
Rock1501's sig:

96z,a4,k&n cai,373 gears,mac headers,cutout,flowmaster catback,1.6 rr`s,3000 vig,et streets,cc305 cam,bone stock suspention and heads,stock tuning,
best time 12.52@109.12(1.74 60ft)

Soon To BE A 383 stroker



I was down in the GTA this past weekend, droping off the WS6 loaded with some spare parts....soon to be a 396 stroker! ;)

[396LT4]

Originally posted by mtlws6
I was down in the GTA this past weekend, droping off some parts....soon to be a 396 stroker! ;)

Hey Mike, welcome to the 396 club! Tell us more details of what exactly you plan to do. Looks like you and I will definitely have to do some heads up next season! ;) :thumbup:

[mtlws6]

Originally posted by 396LT4
Hey Mike, welcome to the 396 club! Tell us more details of what exactly you plan to do. Looks like you and I will definitely have to do some heads up next season! ;) :thumbup:

The plans are still being worked on as we speak... I have the Lunati crank, rods and pistons, a bare LT1 block that needs work, and a blank canvas.

The car will be a completely differrent beast next spring.

[CHRISPY]

Sounds awesome!! I can't wait to hear/see the results!!

:beer:

[Purple Poncho]

Originally posted by Ram Air T/A
Without the spray ?????????. Then what's the point HAHAHAHA isnt the motor just for getting it off the trailer HAHAHA :drive:

Some don't need the one hit wonder. ;)

[nosguy]

Originally posted by Purple Poncho
Some don't need the one hit wonder. ;)

Some use 10 pounds of boost some use a 10 pound bottle, choose your poison:baby: :baby: :baby:

[Purple Poncho]

I agree. It is all poison. Thing is you get 2 diff cars. One NA and then on spray. You could do the same with boost and a bottle. Problem is when the bottle runs out you are back to normalville.

You should attach 2 solenoids and a bottle to your soother. :D

[Purple Poncho]

Sorry Paul.
Back to your regularly scheduled program.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Purple Poncho
Some don't need the one hit wonder. ;) And some win the Top Dawg prize. :yup:

[Andre]

Originally posted by nosguy
Some use 10 pounds of boost some use a 10 pound bottle, choose your poison:baby: :baby: :baby:

It would be interesting to see how fast someone could go with a naturally aspirated, pump gas, hydraulic cam & streetable motor ;)

[Andre]

Originally posted by 396LT4
Hey Mike, welcome to the 396 club! Tell us more details of what exactly you plan to do. Looks like you and I will definitely have to do some heads up next season! ;) :thumbup:

If you want to keep up with Mike next year, you will need to do your homework this winter ;) He'll have the bullet proof 12 bolt out of my Z28 to make sure he is able to harness all those ponies!

[rock1501]

It is going to be a great year next year:drive: cant wait:)

[Purple Poncho]

Originally posted by Andre
If you want to keep up with Mike next year, you will need to do your homework this winter ;) He'll have the bullet proof 12 bolt out of my Z28 to make sure he is able to harness all those ponies!

Yup. Can't be quick in the 1/4 with an M6 with out one and some sticky tires.:drive:

[SLED28]

Originally posted by Purple Poncho
Problem is when the bottle runs out you are back to normalville.



Hey! Get a Bigger Bottle! But seriously, I used to have spray on the street, a 180 shot (small solenoids) and I could get 3-4 full 1/4 passes on the street, and that was plenty of racing for me for a night!
Are you saying your always on the boost? If not , you would be normville too..
Don't forget Steve's car is also a 11.0 in its prime, which is the same as your boosted stroker in its prime also... I think you need to turn up the wick because I know there's more in the poncho..

[Purple Poncho]

Originally posted by Hooper
And some win the Top Dawg prize. :yup:

Some are indeed. Didn't see you in the race....or even racing at the track for that matter.

[Purple Poncho]

Originally posted by SLED28
Hey! Get a Bigger Bottle! But seriously, I used to have spray on the street, a 180 shot (small solenoids) and I could get 3-4 full 1/4 passes on the street, and that was plenty of racing for me for a night!
Are you saying your always on the boost? If not , you would be normville too..
Don't forget Steve's car is also a 11.0 in its prime, which is the same as your boosted stroker in its prime also... I think you need to turn up the wick because I know there's more in the poncho..

Not always in boost but I know it is always there. I could hold it for 2 miles if I wanted (and had a get out of jail free card) let off and go for another 2 miles.
Every time it rolls down the driveway all the horses are ready to go all the time.
I think my car is far from prime. The motor is 4 years old(5 next year) and the clutch is 5 years (6 next year). I'll replace the valve springs this winter. Those 7K miss shifts in the Top Dog (and the last 4 years) are not good on the old LT1. I have beat the piss out of it.
The only thing prime is the tune and what keeps the motor together. Pete K did build this one right at his old shop.
I don't really know what to do in terms of mods other then maintenance at this point. It is what I wanted. Looks good, goes good....maybe a 500$ juice kit but......or big turbo but $$$, then I'll have to play with it to get it right again. Lowering the weight will do me the most good.

This is Paul's thread not mine.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Purple Poncho
Some are indeed. Didn't see you in the race....or even racing at the track for that matter. No, my car was in the shop getting the trans fixed. Hopefully next year I can get out to the track more often. :)

[Hooper]

Originally posted by rock1501
It is going to be a great year next year:drive: cant wait:) There's going to a lot of cars in the club that will be fighting in the 11 - 12 sec range. Should be a fun year. :D

[Purple Poncho]

And I was not referring to Steve's car but rather Dave's. If he is OSCA racing I'd think juice would make it less consistent with always fooling with bottle heaters, bottle pressure, tune, timing, having multiple bottles....that is why I *think* Steve's car got slower during the day. The bottle was running dry.

[Andre]

Originally posted by Purple Poncho
And I was not referring to Steve's car but rather Dave's. If he is OSCA racing I'd think juice would make it less consistent with always fooling with bottle heaters, bottle pressure, tune, timing, having multiple bottles....that is why I *think* Steve's car got slower during the day. The bottle was running dry.

I think Steve's 2nd to last pass was the best of the day (10.7) and his last pass was slower (10.9) because his torque arm snapped at the launch and his sixty foot was off as a result... When it comes to a simple setup nothing beats running NA on pump gas...

[Purple Poncho]

Originally posted by Andre
I think Steve's 2nd to last pass was the best of the day (10.7) and his last pass was slower (10.9) because his torque arm snapped at the launch and his sixty foot was off as a result... When it comes to a simple setup nothing beats running NA on pump gas...

I have the vid and there is nothing you can see that comes off the car. I don't think I could go to the track, cut the torque arm in half and still cut a 1.5 sixty much less run down the track without crashing at 126 mph like he did. I am no mechanic but I'd think it would be tough to drive around with any control much less drag race with a broken torque arm. Who knows, maybe one could...I think it was 10.73 to 10.96 between those back to back runs.

[Andre]

Originally posted by Purple Poncho
I have the vid and there is nothing you can see that comes off the car. I don't think I could go to the track, cut the torque arm in half and still cut a 1.5 sixty much less run down the track without crashing at 126 mph like he did. I am no mechanic but I'd think it would be tough to drive around with any control much less drag race with a broken torque arm. Who knows, maybe one could...I think it was 10.73 to 10.96 between those back to back runs.

Matt, everyone who watched the last race between you and Steve saw the rubber sleave (that covers part of the torque arm)sitting right after the starting line just after Steve launched...

I am sure several people even have this on video...

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Andre
I think Steve's 2nd to last pass was the best of the day (10.7) and his last pass was slower (10.9) because his torque arm snapped at the launch and his sixty foot was off as a result... When it comes to a simple setup nothing beats running NA on pump gas... :rubeyes: Andre.....is that you?:rubeyes: :) :) :)

[Purple Poncho]

That is a rubber sleeve. I have the same thing. It is rubber and can rip but doesn't mean the steel rips.....I'm not saying it is not possible. If he has a Spohn I have the same TA. I had an old version with the male-female slider and that did bend at the male slider but didn't hurt the rubber. Keep in mind the shock I generate when I launch. The new version is solid and has been great. The rubber just keeps dirt out.
There is no comment on the vid about a sleeve and it has all sorts of sound and such.

Again, back on topic.

[C Man]

Just wanted to say that I saw the sleeve as it flew off... there was nothing wrong with it... no rips or anything... nobody could figure out how it could have fallen off intact until we realized later that the torque arm snapped..... and it fell off whole.

[SLED28]

You need a new vid cam because i was behind the car and the starter picked it up and gave it to us and we brought it back to the trailor. It had been somewhat busted previously I think b/c a day earlier i pushed down on the back of the car and it was stiff... Probably binded up

[Purple Poncho]

Didn't say it couldn't happen I just didn't see it and don't know how you 1.5 sixty and run 126.x in the 1/4 without control issues with a snapped TA. What would happen if you raced with no TA? I can't picture it.
Water under the bridge anyhow.

[SLED28]

Because these is still half there, it was just wedged up into the floor so it is holding somewhat...

[Warbird]

Guys can you take your Top Dawg discussion to another thread please? I'd really like to keep this on topic.

BTW on another note I have discovered my rear and very expensive OEM Z06 rims are mangled on the inside, because ARE once again, and without forethought or care moved my car around allowing then to scrape on the inside bump stops. At least nosguy realized the problem of why my car wouldn't roll and put in spacers to keep the wheels away from the stops.

Alas, once again, damage done :(

[CHRISPY]

Originally posted by SLED28
Because these is still half there, it was just wedged up into the floor so it is holding somewhat...

Yup that happened to me on my LT1. Torque arm snapped and punctured through part of the floor. Every time I shifted it would SLAM into the floor of the car. It was pretty scary on 28 inch slicks with 9#s of air in them!! :eek:

[Warbird]

Never broke a torque arm, but I busted lots or diffs :rolleyes:

[SLED28]

nevermind

[Warbird]

Thanks Dave, Hopefully the rims are OK.

[mtlws6]

Originally posted by Warbird
Never broke a torque arm, but I busted lots or diffs :rolleyes:

I only broke 1 diff, and the repair job on that alone was enough to convince me to not wait around for it to break a second time.

[C Man]

Broke my Auburn Pro... covered under warranty though.... I think I may have been a little too aggressive on the spray out of the hole... time for a window switch before next year :)

[Andre]

Originally posted by C Man
Broke my Auburn Pro... covered under warranty though.... I think I may have been a little too aggressive on the spray out of the hole... time for a window switch before next year :)

Window switch won't make a difference when launching a stalled automatic... by the time the car is moving the converter would have flashed past the low RPM setting... trust me on this one, I have tried with and without the window switch... get yourself a 12 bolt and be done with it...

[rock1501]

Originally posted by Andre
Window switch won't make a difference when launching a stalled automatic... by the time the car is moving the converter would have flashed past the low RPM setting... trust me on this one, I have tried with and without the window switch... get yourself a 12 bolt and be done with it...
I will have a 12 bolt for sure :)
I have broke the rear once but I am sure with all the extra rwhp I will have with the new motor I will shread the poor little guy :D

[Warbird]

I was thinking about this thread again and really wanted to bring it back on topic. I had responded in another thread at LS1tech with first hand knowledge of a number of people that had been taken to the cleaners locally. As I was writing my remarks it dawned on me what a chilling legacy ARE was leaving behind with people I call my friends and people I know. It seems to me that with all the chaff in threads like this that the true message gets lost.

Here is what I said in response to another thread defending ARE's work and actions.

Pomp, and perhaps Dale

Interesting comment. If it was made by a self serving selfish individual I could understand your point. However in a previous comment you also mentioned things such as friends, getting along and community. That leads me to believe you don't simply have selfish feelings towards our community. I also feel the need to comment as well. Perhaps I can help you guys see beyond the blinders.

I have to agree that there are indeed some happy customers at ARE, yourself, Rampant, Cman etc. Before going on, lets reflect on what happened in your cases as well. All of you were late, frustrated and angry at some point and seem to have forgotten your own frustrations, alas I digress. Have you ever actually sat down and reflected on the price that many others have paid for your satisfaction? Lets just stay local with people you know, Eugenio (20K lost), 396 LT4 (9K Lost) Warbird (20K lost to date) and the people that had a hard ride such as Andre (lied to strung along), Stroker R/T (10K lost), Edmund (15K Lost), Joe Launi (20K lost), Denttech (5K lost +500 depost lost on intake), Sled28 (siezed motor), Ian Kearns (60K lost, 2 years still no car, also damaged by ARE), Mike Dervin (2 years, stroker, still no car) and thats just off the top of my head. If I gave it more thought the list would get much longer but I just listed around 150K worth of lies, theft and blatant screwing. None of these people ever recovered a dime to date. So when you think so proudly about the shop you are supporting maybe you should give some additional thought to how the shop stayed financed and who suffered for your gains.

Also one last point, lets not forget that big fancy new shop and the huge upfront investment for all the cool equipment and toys that now reside there. Where did all the money that came from deposits from customers go????? What about all the cars not finished because ARE has no money left.

[romanss]

Originally posted by Warbird
I was thinking about this thread again and really wanted to bring it back on topic. I had responded in another thread at LS1tech with first hand knowledge of a number of people that had been taken to the cleaners locally. As I was writing my remarks it dawned on me what a chilling legacy ARE was leaving behind with people I call my friends and people I know. It seems to me that with all the chaff in threads like this that the true message gets lost.

Here is what I said in response to another thread defending ARE's work and actions.

It's funny watching the blinders move from person to person in the last few years. How perceptions change when the ass screwing is personal.(me included)

But remember it's not the company doing this, it's people and those people are still around. It's people that steal, cheat and lie. Not companies. How soon we forget them. I would rather loose my business and be in debt for the next 5 years rather than knowingly do anyone wrong.

On a better note. Ah those good old bump stops. I think that those were the first thing that I chopped off of my car.;) :D

Again, good luck and may we see your car live once again. Snapping rearends like they're toothpicks.

Roman

[Warbird]

Very interesting anology Roman, sad but true. People are what make a business and people rarely change their ways.

I have decided to keep the blinders off and approach this situation from an angle of positive skeptisism. To date I have been pleased with the quality of workmanship and timeliness of work Wade has preformed. He has given me no reason for concern and above all has always made the effort to call me immediately when he needs to talk with me or simply give me an update on progress. I find this very refreshing because I don't have to waste my time tracking people down.

Yeah, it's funney how easily the car rolls when the wheels aren't grinding away :rolleyes: I really hope my rear end is tougher than a tooth pick, lords knows I've spent enough to beef of the driveline.

[SLED28]

http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/turbopipes.JPG

http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/warbird.JPG

[Andre]

Very nice! I guess I am not the only one looking forward to next season!

[romanss]

Looks nice Paul.

But the red k-frame.:uhok: LOL

Roman

[Warbird]

The old painted black was just rusting away, so it was powder coated. In retrospect I would have gone with blue if I had it to do all over with. The car now has a full 4" of ground clearance up from 2 1/2" :D so I shouldn't scrape too many leaves on the ground. Looking closely at the drivers side, that picture was taken with the mid-pipe removed, when attached the exhaust will come up about an inch.

I was at the shop on Thursday afternoon and the more I look at the vented bumper the way it is, the more I like it. I think I'm going toi leave it just the way it is. Champion Motorsports made the grill look OEM and very, very professional job :D We noticed that if I painted the screen body colour or even black that the intercooler becomes very visible behind, kind of sinister looking :eek:

On another note, I had a sit down meeting with Nick Agostino last week and we discussed the whole situation. Stay tuned there may be a break in the story :cool: I'll wait for Nick to get back to me Mon/Tue and report on the results. At this time it appears that we may have reached an agreement. The motor should be out this week and we'll see what happened to it and move on from there.

Given the current pace, when the snow clears it looks like the Warbird will be terrorizing the odd supercar or two ;)

[Andre]

Originally posted by Warbird
On another note, I had a sit down meeting with Nick Agostino last week and we discussed the whole situation. Stay tuned there may be a break in the story :cool: I'll wait for Nick to get back to me Mon/Tue and report on the results. At this time it appears that we may have reached an agreement. The motor should be out this week and we'll see what happened to it and move on from there.

Sounds like things are coming together in more ways than one!

You could always powder coat the K-Member and A-Arms blue!

[Warbird]

I'll leave the K-Member as is for now, besides you wont see it under most conditions any ways :D

I'll probably post up the overall terms of what Nick and I agreed to later today. It would be nice to put this whole thing in the past and move on.

[Andre]

Originally posted by Warbird
I'll leave the K-Member as is for now, besides you wont see it under most conditions any ways :D

I'll probably post up the overall terms of what Nick and I agreed to later today. It would be nice to put this whole thing in the past and move on.

The K-Member will be very visible when you pull the wheels up 6 feet in the air on hard launches :)

How pumped are you about getting your car on the road at the very beginning of next spring?

So did you and Nick actually come to an agreement?

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Andre
The K-Member will be very visible when you pull the wheels up 6 feet in the air on hard launches :)

How pumped are you about getting your car on the road at the very beginning of next spring?

So did you and Nick actually come to an agreement?


You're a really nosy fart aren't you. Does the word patience mean absolutely nothing to you! :p:p

Hang in there Andre.


Elmer

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
You're a really nosy fart aren't you. Does the word patience mean absolutely nothing to you! :p:p

Hang in there Andre.


Elmer

I know I don't have patience, any chance you are still thinking about that email I sent you last week?

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Checkmate
I know I don't have patience, any chance you are still thinking about that email I sent you last week?


Was that about #2?

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Was that about #2?

:yup:

[Warbird]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Was that about #2?

That's exactly what I felt like when all this started :eek:

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by Checkmate
:yup:

:hmm: :crickets:

[Andre]

:tmblweed:

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by Checkmate
:hmm: :crickets:


Warnings were given in the thread. A request to cease and desist was in the thread. Continued posting AFTER the warnings brought on #2.


Reap what ya sow.


Case closed.

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Warnings were given in the thread. A request to cease and desist was in the thread. Continued posting AFTER the warnings brought on #2.


Reap what ya sow.


Case closed.

I was told I attacked a moderator and given 3 days.
Then told "You often post things that seem to be intended to stir up trouble, or just be rude. Other staff members have made that same observation". I sent a PM to a neutral moderator asking about this, I was told nope couldn't find anyone complaining about you.

Just wondering why I have never received a warning if I am such a problem, thats all.

I see other people continued to debate in that thread, no bans. Oh well I guess the example was made of me. :)

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
Case closed.

[Warbird]

Ok as promised, here are the basics of the deal that I worked out with Nick. I spoke with him again today and he appears to making every effort to make it happen.

Nick, if you are reading this please feel free to correct any omissions.

What we agreed to was:

1\ Wade will pull the motor, inspect it and provide a list of parts needed to fix it. Nick will go down to FTR inspect it then provide all the needed parts needed for the repair. We agreed that Wade will do the re and re and repair to keep the entire project under one roof. Also agreed by all parties, FTR will not charge any labour for the rebuild

2\ Nick will pay me for all of the bodyshop repairs to the car, ($1,356 to date) with another $800 estimated. Nick will also pay to have the car wet sanded, detailed and cleaned when finished to remove scratches and marks while at Autoworks, probably around $500.

3\ I gave Nick a list of my missing parts and he has agreed to replace them all, these are parts that where either removed from the car or agreed to previously. I also have a $1,000 credit at PTE that Autoworks will transfer to FTR for me use as I see fit.

4\ Nick will pay FTR a reasonable amount (TBD) for labor to finish off the car and get it running. The labour is simply to cover costs that should have been dealt with before. Any additional work not in the original agreement is extra and on my dime, which is fair. I will not be asking for things such as the cost to modify the turbo system, as it was not part of the original deal (as an example).

The agreement is not perfect and doesn't cover all of my costs but it does go a long way to make me whole. When resolved I'll be happy with the agreement and let it go. Simply keeping this bargin will settle the whole issue for me as far as I'm concerned.

There are more details that will remain private at this time however, I really feel that both Nick and Wade managed to work together on this in my best interests.

Any questions? Ask away.

[Andre]

Paul, that sounds like some really positive and encouraging news!

You mentioned that "FTR will not charge any labour for the rebuild"... is that because like you said in point #4 "Nick will pay FTR a reasonable amount (TBD) for labor to finish off the car and get it running."?

Or is FTR rebuilding your motor for free?

[Warbird]

Wade, Nick and I made the decision to make it easier to keep the project in house. It didn't make sense for FTR to build everything else and hold Autoworks responsible for any future warranty or build quality issues. Wade made the offer because he believed it was fair. FTR felt more comfortable if they did it all because they would know exactly what was done and what parts are in there.

Wade stepped up to plate to help out and wants this project finished as much as everyone else.

[Andre]

Originally posted by Warbird
Wade, Nick and I made the decision to make it easier to keep the project in house. It didn't make sense for FTR to build everything else and hold Autoworks responsible for any future warranty or build quality issues. Wade made the offer because he believed it was fair. FTR felt more comfortable if they did it all because they would know exactly what was done and what parts are in there.

Wade stepped up to plate to help out and wants this project finished as much as everyone else.

That's a very classy move on FTR's part!

[SLED28]

http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/kn1.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/kn2.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/freshairtube.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/front.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/incooler.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/piping.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/allpiping.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/cat.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/catback.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/4inchout.JPG

[rock1501]

Sounds like things are coming along nicely any idea on a timeframe for some dyno numbers?

[Boost Master]

At least some people are getting through to Nick only because he doesn't want any bad press on the internet. Let see if he can pay a $15000 debt then I would be impressed. :mad:

[Warbird]

Dave,

Thanks for posting up the pics. She's coming along great now and looking ready to rock and roll :D

I can hardly wait to see her on the rollers :eek:

[SLED28]

nevermind

[SLED28]

Just wondering who else thinks Paul should come out to all the events and bring mirrors for under the front bumper when its parked :eek: :eek:

[Eugenio_SS]

Originally posted by Boost Master
At least some people are getting through to Nick only because he doesn't want any bad press on the internet. Let see if he can pay a $15000 debt then I would be impressed. :mad:
I'm also waiting on my parts, $ that Nick decide to steal from me.

[DR.ZED]

I was at the shop yesterday afternoon, and these pictures don't give the plumbing justice. When you actually see the car the plumbing is unreal to see before your eyes. Everybody will understand what I mean when they take a look under the car.

The front clip looks most aggressive with the IC peeking behind. :)

[DR.ZED]

Originally posted by Eugenio_SS
I'm also waiting on my parts, $ that Nick decide to steal from me.

I'm carefully chosing words here, and I don't understand why Nick has decided to help Paul and not the others. Not taking anything away from Paul's hard work to get a resolution, but I think it is a cheap way (or expensive?) for Nick to try and mend from bridges with FTR.

Nick doesn't need to come see the internals or the damage, Wade's word is good enough for anybody in this case.

I'm one for everybody getting along, but it just looks like FTR is pulling their sh!t together, and getting things done, and Nick wants to come in and see for himself, and have an angle. Nick always appeared to be good to me, but I wonder now how much was spin and how much was an angle and how badly I was played. Anyway... glad things are working out for all involved. I just hope those who deserve the credit and hard work actually get it.

It matters not who built, tuned, tightened the last bolt... if the project was 99% done and never finished, the person who steps up to finish it should get all the credit. There are many cases in which this is evident. My simple LT1 is one of them.

That is the last I'll say on these and other things regarding this...

[SLED28]

Originally posted by DR.ZED


Nick doesn't need to come see the internals or the damage, Wade's word is good enough for anybody in this case.



nevermind

[Warbird]

Nick isn't questioning that there is a problem with the motor or that Wade will rebuild it, my understanding is he wants to see what went wrong. He also wants to collect and deliver my parts to FTR so no biggie to me if he wants to see the motor and car personally. Wade has no problem with it.

[nosguy]

Originally posted by Eugenio_SS
I'm also waiting on my parts, $ that Nick decide to steal from me.

Guys please keep Paul's thread about his project.

[SLED28]

nevermind

[CHRISPY]

Looks great :)

Do you guys have the fans setup yet?

Are you planning to shroud the airfilter at all from engine heat?

Paul vent that wastegate to atmosphere it'll sound AWESOME :)

What injectors are you going with?

Cheers,
Chris

[XXV ANN]

Originally posted by SLED28
BTW once we get that last stainless pipe in, we will then pull all the plumbing, get it professionally welded, and sent out for Jet-Hot coating. Then the motor can be pulled and dis-assembled while thats getting done. :yay: :yay: :yay:

Does this mean that you're cutting apart the piping to get it rewelded?

[SLED28]

nevermind

[nosguy]

Originally posted by XXV ANN
Does this mean that you're cutting apart the piping to get it rewelded?

All piping is tacked in place, its all removed then welded fully around each joint.

[SLED28]

Originally posted by XXV ANN
Does this mean that you're cutting apart the piping to get it rewelded?

No. It will all come out as it is. Because it has to go back in that way!

[SLED28]

you beat me in reaction :(

[XXV ANN]

Originally posted by nosguy
All piping is tacked in place, its all removed then welded fully around each joint.

Ah yes, I see that now in some of the pix.

Is Paul going to have that awesome single turndown exhaust pipe as shown in the last pic or is that also temporary? ;)

[CHRISPY]

Originally posted by XXV ANN
Ah yes, I see that now in some of the pix.

Is Paul going to have that awesome single turndown exhaust pipe as shown in the last pic or is that also temporary? ;)

That is the diesel truck option ;)

[nosguy]

Iwas waiting for someone to say something about that:D

[nosguy]

Plumbing is completed, all the pipeing is being removed to be welded and coated and then the engine removal

[CHRISPY]

Originally posted by nosguy
Plumbing is completed, all the pipeing is being removed to be welded and coated and then the engine removal

Good stuff!! :cool:

[SLED28]

http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/blowoff1.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/blowoff.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/pipes%201.JPG
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/pipes%202.JPG

[Warbird]

Awesome pics, when it's out of the car you can see just how much plumbing there really is :eek: That all hot side without the headers as well :eek:

When you have the motor on a stand, I'd love to see the complete system mounted out of the car :cool:

Great work and thanks for keeping up the pics Dave :D

[SLED28]

nevermind

[Warbird]

I'm thinking he already pretty much has a fab shop, those pipes look great :D

:Ohnoes: I predict that when those pipes get pressurized, shit is gonna start to happen real fast :scary: :scary: :eyepop: :eyepop:

I can hardly wait :D :cool:

[CHRISPY]

I cant wait to hear/see the dyno/track results :devil:

[nosguy]

Originally posted by Warbird
I'm thinking he already pretty much has a fab shop, those pipes look great :D

:Ohnoes: I predict that when those pipes get pressurized, shit is gonna start to happen real fast :scary: :scary: :eyepop: :eyepop:

I can hardly wait :D :cool:

Glad you like it Paul, now on to the rest of the car!

[SLED28]

nevermind

[jay68camaro]

Originally posted by Warbird
I'm thinking he already pretty much has a fab shop, those pipes look great :D



I'd say!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[SLED28]

Hmmm, more work done again! All welded up Paul!

[SLED28]

http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/welded.JPG

[SLED28]

http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/welded1.JPG

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by SLED28
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/welded1.JPG

nice pipes. :D

[Warbird]

Discussion in progress at this moment.

Updates to follow

[Andre]

Originally posted by Warbird
Discussion in progress at this moment.

Updates to follow

This sounds like it could be interesting!

[SLED28]

I really hope this comes to an end for Paul. I see paul at the shop, and he is visibly upset everytime we show him something. He deserves to just get a check cut and never ever have to deal with that place again, and close the chapter for once and all. This is no small amounts here, tens of thousands over the past 2 years. Goodluck Paul and I hope you get this solved soon.

[SLED28]

nevermind

[DR.ZED]

Paul, I remember you thinking you were just going to run the engine and see what comes of it. I am really glad this project took the turn that it has. Its not a fun surprise, but atleast you know and the professionals can now move ahead and do it right.

Keep your head up! :)

[Bugblndr]

Originally posted by SLED28
\
Bug this is from the guy who you'll put up against my engine building skills. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Reading between the lines, it sounds exactly like the quality of work you have done in the past for me and others Dave. I hope Paul gets on the road sooner rather than later, he deserves to.

[DR.ZED]

I'm no engine builder here, but let me ask something... oil burning is a function of the type of rings and improper machining, no?

... bearing clearances is a function of machining and engine assembly, no?

The common link here is the machnining, and not the engine assembly. In the case of bearing clearances, that is major. Somebody that probably took out my latest engine. But I digress...

Rich, man, you really need to chill with these comments. Dave is at FTR, and doesn't have these issues. I really think the issues are rebuilt lifters, used rings, used pistons, shitty machining... NONE of which Dave is responsible for.

... I was asked who assembled my latest engine... you know what I was told? Three different answers depending on the day. :rolleyes:

[SLED28]

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

[Warbird]

My old engine had some issues and was was not right so in speaking with Nick, here is the resolution:

ARE/Autoworks will provide me:

Engine
New LS2 block
New Eagle 6.125 rods
New Ross Pistons with Hell Fire rings
New ARP head studs

Heads
New Extreme duty exhaust valves
Machine the heads
New valve job

I will keep:

Current Callies crank
ARP main studs
Heads

I will return my old block, rods and pistons in exchange. This is to be completed before the end of December.

I am still talking to Nick to resolve the following outstanding issues:

1\ List of my missing parts and he has agreed to replace them all, these are parts that where either removed from the car or agreed to previously. Should be resolved this week

2\ $1,000 credit at PTE that Autoworks will transfer to FTR for me use as I see fit. SHould be resolved this week

3\ Nick will pay FTR a reasonable amount (TBD) for labor to finish off the car and get it running. The labour is simply to cover costs that should have been dealt with before. Any additional work not in the original agreement is extra and on my dime, which is fair. I will not be asking for things such as the cost to modify the turbo system, as it was not part of the original deal (as an example).

[Eugenio_SS]

good luck... I was promised similar things by another liar from ARE (Frankie) ... Hope yours come through.
I was promised a block, pistons, my owed nitrous kit, and my sponsorship $ back.
Ended up getting a FY and then an invoice.
Hope your luck is better than mine.

[SLED28]

Now lets see somebody stick to the dates. I wnt that block before Xmas or you know whats going to happen....
I would tell him if anything isn't delivered before Xmas, just cut a check so we can order the parts! Or miss more summers :mad:

Originally posted by Warbird
My old engine had some issues and was was not right so in speaking with Nick, here is the resolution:

ARE/Autoworks will provide me:

Engine
New LS2 block
New Eagle 6.125 rods
New Ross Pistons with Hell Fire rings
New ARP head studs

Heads
New Extreme duty exhaust valves
Machine the heads
New valve job

I will keep:

Current Callies crank
ARP main studs
Heads

I will return my old block, rods and pistons in exchange. This is to be completed before the end of December.

I am still talking to Nick to resolve the following outstanding issues:

1\ List of my missing parts and he has agreed to replace them all, these are parts that where either removed from the car or agreed to previously. Should be resolved this week

2\ $1,000 credit at PTE that Autoworks will transfer to FTR for me use as I see fit. SHould be resolved this week

3\ Nick will pay FTR a reasonable amount (TBD) for labor to finish off the car and get it running. The labour is simply to cover costs that should have been dealt with before. Any additional work not in the original agreement is extra and on my dime, which is fair. I will not be asking for things such as the cost to modify the turbo system, as it was not part of the original deal (as an example).

[Pesticide]

Luckly my Pat Musi mill is altogether and running.;) Right Dave;)

[Checkmate]

Originally posted by Warbird
My old engine had some issues and was was not right so in speaking with Nick, here is the resolution:

ARE/Autoworks will provide me:

Engine
New LS2 block
New Eagle 6.125 rods
New Ross Pistons with Hell Fire rings
New ARP head studs

Heads
New Extreme duty exhaust valves
Machine the heads
New valve job

I will keep:

Current Callies crank
ARP main studs
Heads

I will return my old block, rods and pistons in exchange. This is to be completed before the end of December.

I am still talking to Nick to resolve the following outstanding issues:

1\ List of my missing parts and he has agreed to replace them all, these are parts that where either removed from the car or agreed to previously. Should be resolved this week

2\ $1,000 credit at PTE that Autoworks will transfer to FTR for me use as I see fit. SHould be resolved this week

3\ Nick will pay FTR a reasonable amount (TBD) for labor to finish off the car and get it running. The labour is simply to cover costs that should have been dealt with before. Any additional work not in the original agreement is extra and on my dime, which is fair. I will not be asking for things such as the cost to modify the turbo system, as it was not part of the original deal (as an example).

I would assume FTR will assemble the new engine and inspect all the parts to confirm they are indeed new?

Hope it all works out. :)

[Warbird]

FTR will be assembling the new motor. Just going over the list now.

[SLED28]

PICS:
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/warbird%20teardown/

[eboggs_jkvl]

Originally posted by SLED28
PICS:
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/warbird%20teardown/

The o-rings looked torqued down to the same specs as my driver's side head gasket. That would be 0 Lb ft

E:)

[romanss]

You have some nice used parts there.

Roman

[SLED28]

http://webhome.idirect.com/~ykwdxdtf/Warbird/fender%20wiring.JPG

[SLED28]

nevermind

[Warbird]

Cool Dave,

I'll make the call in the morning and see about getting those parts.

Nice clean work :D

[nosguy]

Things are starting to get finished up so quickly that I think I'm getting more excited than Paul!;)

I can't wait to finally get this thing on the rollers!!!!

[Z07]

Originally posted by nosguy
Things are starting to get finished up so quickly that I think I'm getting more excited than Paul!;)

I can't wait to finally get this thing on the rollers!!!!

I'm looking forward too it as well. What kind of time frame are you lookin at Wade?

[nosguy]

Just waiting on the block and pistons, then we will assemble.
It will be probably mid to late Jan before its running, custom pistons take a little to get.

[Z07]

Oh cool, I didn't know you were planning on having it done before spring. :thumbup:

Should make HUGE power especially now that he's using an LS2 block. I look forward to the dyno and track results.

[SLED28]

nevermind

[XXV ANN]

Originally posted by SLED28
I think it will be more a dyno monster then a track car. I think Paul just wants to spin the tires at 100mph and scare people :D :D :D

He talks about it enough...

[Z07]

Originally posted by SLED28
I think it will be more a dyno monster then a track car.

Hey whatever makes him happy, it's his car.

Appearing to be stock and pulling on an LS7 Z06 would be cool!


I think his car should do 10s launching in 4th gear!:drive:

[Warbird]

My goal?!?!?!?!?!

"Have a running, reliable, drivable car that I can cruise on weekdays and play weekend warrior at the track from time to time. "

This car will spend 90% of it's time in street trim and on public roads, it will need to be able to be driven in heavy traffic, on the highways and go for top off cruises. Lets be realistic, these are street cars, quick yes, fast no. At least not by your average run of the mill purpose built track monster. This is what I have always wanted in a car and I made some changes with Wade to bring that goal back in focus.

My car finished, will be around 3800 lbs, six speed and running on treaded street tires most of the time. I am not going to sacrifice the AC, stereo, power accessories or any creature comfort to gain that extra 10th in the quarter. That doesn't sound like a balls to the wall race car, if I loose to a gutted out lighter car, so what.

I would hope the car will be capable of mid 10's reliably any faster and I am going to start breaking lots of parts (she weighs too much) I want to do some autocross, and some big track road events and drive it home at the end of the day.

There you have it; my goals all laid out and when Wade tunes it she'll make what she makes and that will be that, when I drive it home with a big smile finally. Two years is a long time to wait just to drive your own car.

[Purple Poncho]

Amen.
I hope you get what you are looking for. The above is why I don't want to F with my car. It is running and works OK for what it is. You will love it once it is done...or you'll sell it.:D

[SLED28]

nevermind

[Warbird]

I plan on keeping the car for now, things seem to be working themselves out these days.

[Warbird]

Well it looks like Elmer has been settled and I'm happy to hear that situation is put to rest. Good work Nick for staying true to your word.

I guess a little update from me would be in order as well. Nick has been working to riund up my missing parts and collect them together, hopefully we will find them all or they will be replaced.

The more important piece is my engine. As you know I have already recieved my block and rods and have been awaiting a custom speced set of pistons. I spoke with Nick last night and was able to comfirm that they have now passed through customs and should arrive at Autoworks this week. Once they arrive Wade can balance the rotating assembly and get to work putting it together. Nick will handle the machining of the block and has invited me to the shop to watch him fix my heads :D

Although I am not complete yet, I know that everything we discussed is in the works and being handled bit by bit. I have been very pleased that Nick has stayed in constant contact with me and walked me through every action item as they arise.

It looks like I might get a chance to play after all this year :cool: