If you were in charge @ GM.....

[QWIKLS1]

What would you do to shake things up? :wizard:

One of the first things i'd do is throw the alternative power/hybrid development into high gear, and I'm talking YESTERDAY!

GM is quite a ways behind Toyota, and it's probably only gonna get worse when people start expecting to pay ~$3ish for a gallon of gasoline.

They don't sell many Suburbans/Tahoes in Europe. :(

Perhaps the people that buy big SUV's don't care about gas prices? :dunno:

Matt

[MapleRed]

I though I heard that GM and DCX are jointly developing hybrids? :think: I would like to see my hybrids from GM too. I'd like to buy an HHR or an Equinox as a dealer driver and get 40+ mpg.

[SphyNxXx]

GM and Toyota are also in a joint venture in developing engines that run on either hybrid technology or alternate fuels. I can't remember which of the two it is.

[BrightRedOne]

Originally posted by MapleRed
I though I heard that GM and DCX are jointly developing hybrids? :think: I would like to see my hybrids from GM too. I'd like to buy an HHR or an Equinox as a dealer driver and get 40+ mpg.

BMW has also now teamed with them.

[dave1w41]

GM and Toyota are also in a joint venture in developing engines that run on either hybrid technology or alternate fuels. I can't remember which of the two it is.



Bzzzzt. Wrong.

[Harmon Rabb]

my plan: LS7 in everything :banana:

LS7 camaro, LS7 gto, LS7 colorado, LS7 cts-v, LS7 ssr, LS7 silverado, LS7 trailblazer SS..

my LS7 in everything plan would turn GM right around :D

[QWIKLS1]

Originally posted by Berman
my plan: LS7 in everything :banana:

LS7 camaro, LS7 gto, LS7 colorado, LS7 cts-v, LS7 ssr, LS7 silverado, LS7 trailblazer SS..

my LS7 in everything plan would turn GM right around :D

That must be the "Hemi" talking.... :lol:

[67Beast]

Originally posted by Berman
my plan: LS7 in everything :banana:

LS7 camaro, LS7 gto, LS7 colorado, LS7 cts-v, LS7 ssr, LS7 silverado, LS7 trailblazer SS..

my LS7 in everything plan would turn GM right around :D

:yup: :D

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Berman
my plan: LS7 in everything :banana:

LS7 camaro, LS7 gto, LS7 colorado, LS7 cts-v, LS7 ssr, LS7 silverado, LS7 trailblazer SS..

my LS7 in everything plan would turn GM right around :D

:yay: :woot:

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally posted by Ole1830
That must be the "Hemi" talking.... :lol:

meh. dcx needs to be throwing the 6.1 hemi in everything, not the sucko 5.7.

[code41ta]

I'd fire the design by committe morons that created the look of the Aztec and the Equinox and the HHR for starters.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by code41ta
I'd fire the design by committe morons that created the look of the Aztec and the Equinox and the HHR for starters.

I think the Nox and the HHR look good. Both are selling well and are getting reviews. Why fire the people that created them, if they are doing well?

[SphyNxXx]

Originally posted by dave1w41
Bzzzzt. Wrong.


http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/12/1auto-179687.htm

http://www.industrialheating.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/news/news_item/0,2836,151318,00.html

:D

[SphyNxXx]

Originally posted by code41ta
I'd fire the design by committe morons that created the look of the Aztec and the Equinox and the HHR for starters.

The same guy that designed the Aztec also designed the C6. The HHR may not be that good looking, but I bet it will sell.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by SphyNxXx
The same guy that designed the Aztec also designed the C6. The HHR may not be that good looking, but I bet it will sell.

I'm starting to see alot of HHR's around here and it just came out. I'm not disagreeing w/ the Assteck, though.

[Carsnob]

1st thing I would do is make all the full size cars across the board REAR WHEEL DRIVE - with the advances in traction control technology it shouldn't be a problem for those that choose to live where it snows.

2nd I would make the cars interiors exactly like VW/Audi if it cost over 20k.

3rd I would bring back the camaro or at least a rwd v8 powered coupe that weighed less than 3700lbs. (and could kick a mustang GT's ass by at least .3 seconds in the .25)

4th the mid-size trucks and SUV's would all get turbo diesel versions.

5th I'd price the cars to what the market will bear instead of giving huge discounts. There is NO WAY a loaded impala should cost almost 28k on sticker and the next year it be worth 15k. Sell that joker for 23k and be done with it.

6th I would DEPRIVATIZE all the dealerships. Customer service would increase exponentially if you didn't have to take your car to Billy Bob's Chevy Imporium and get Billy's cousin Jethroe to work on it.

Lastly, I would fire every single accountant that couldn't pass a basic "car guy/gal" test. And saying any car has a "V4" would be immediate grounds for dissmissal for anyone.

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally posted by Carsnob
1st thing I would do is make all the full size cars across the board REAR WHEEL DRIVE - with the advances in traction control technology it shouldn't be a problem for those that choose to live where it snows.

2nd I would make the cars interiors exactly like VW/Audi if it cost over 20k.

3rd I would bring back the camaro or at least a rwd v8 powered coupe that weighed less than 3700lbs. (and could kick a mustang GT's ass by at least .3 seconds in the .25)

4th the mid-size trucks and SUV's would all get turbo diesel versions.

5th I'd price the cars to what the market will bear instead of giving huge discounts. There is NO WAY a loaded impala should cost almost 28k on sticker and the next year it be worth 15k. Sell that joker for 23k and be done with it.

6th I would DEPRIVATIZE all the dealerships. Customer service would increase exponentially if you didn't have to take your car to Billy Bob's Chevy Imporium and get Billy's cousin Jethroe to work on it.

Lastly, I would fire every single accountant that couldn't pass a basic "car guy/gal" test. And saying any car has a "V4" would be immediate grounds for dissmissal for anyone.

i like my LS7 in every car plan. works better. :D

[dave1w41]

Lets go over this point by point:

1st thing I would do is make all the full size cars across the board REAR WHEEL DRIVE - with the advances in traction control technology it shouldn't be a problem for those that choose to live where it snows.

What about the 90% of customers who won't accept RWD? What are you going to sell to them? GM's FWD large midsize and fullsize cars are very successful despite the fact that a lot of people find them unexiting. The W-Car line is the biggest selling line of vehicles sold in this country.


2nd I would make the cars interiors exactly like VW/Audi if it cost over 20k.

Done - have you seen that new Impala yet?


3rd I would bring back the camaro or at least a rwd v8 powered coupe that weighed less than 3700lbs. (and could kick a mustang GT's ass by at least .3 seconds in the .25)


Good idea.


4th the mid-size trucks and SUV's would all get turbo diesel versions.
Good idea


5th I'd price the cars to what the market will bear instead of giving huge discounts. There is NO WAY a loaded impala should cost almost 28k on sticker and the next year it be worth 15k. Sell that joker for 23k and be done with it.

Well it isn't that drastic but there is a plan in place to do something exactly like that. Total Value Promise. More equipment, lower price, hinging on GM's overall good quality picture.


6th I would DEPRIVATIZE all the dealerships. Customer service would increase exponentially if you didn't have to take your car to Billy Bob's Chevy Imporium and get Billy's cousin Jethroe to work on it.

Forget it. Can't be done. Dealer owners have between 2 and 20 million dollars in invested captol - each. Every one of them would have to be bought out to the last penny. By the lowest estimate I can figure, it would cost 40 billion dollars to do that. Which is about 39 Billion dollars more than GM has.

[Bird of Fire]

Originally posted by Ole1830
What would you do to shake things up? :wizard:

One of the first things i'd do is throw the alternative power/hybrid development into high gear, and I'm talking YESTERDAY!

GM is quite a ways behind Toyota, and it's probably only gonna get worse when people start expecting to pay ~$3ish for a gallon of gasoline.
Matt

Horrific idea. Do the math of the mpg achieved by a vehicle that's offered with and without hybrid technology. Do that combined with the MSRP of each car.

Then get back to me and let me know how many years it takes before people start to see a savings at the pump. It's around 5-6 years on average IIRC at the CURRENT gas prices.

Battery technology needs to come a long way and become cheaper before we'll start to see a drop in pricing on it.

Not to mention recycling the batteries is a process unto itself which doesn't exactly scrub the earth clean. It's a nasty process with left over chemicals that still pollutes. So essentially, robbing peter to pay paul.

[Cobra Commander]

Bring back the Firebird with a blown LS7 that runs 10s and sell it for $25K.

I'd bankrupt the company but would be remembered forever as a hero to LS2.com.

[QWIKLS1]

Originally posted by Bird of Fire
Horrific idea. Do the math of the mpg achieved by a vehicle that's offered with and without hybrid technology. Do that combined with the MSRP of each car.

Then get back to me and let me know how many years it takes before people start to see a savings at the pump. It's around 5-6 years on average IIRC at the CURRENT gas prices.

Battery technology needs to come a long way and become cheaper before we'll start to see a drop in pricing on it.

Not to mention recycling the batteries is a process unto itself which doesn't exactly scrub the earth clean. It's a nasty process with left over chemicals that still pollutes. So essentially, robbing peter to pay paul.

You give people too much credit. :)

There's alot of people around that don't care what makes sense...

I talked to a guy from reserves that paid >$30K for a Honda Accord hybrid... Like $7K over what he could have bought a gas one for. He's convinced he made a brilliant move because the car gets 35-40ish MPG's in town. :sillyme:

[Bird of Fire]

Originally posted by Ole1830
You give people too much credit. :)

There's alot of people around that don't care what makes sense...

I talked to a guy from reserves that paid >$30K for a Honda Accord hybrid... Like $7K over what he could have bought a gas one for. He's convinced he made a brilliant move because the car gets 35-40ish MPG's in town. :sillyme:

I dunno call me crazy, but when I purchase something that's over say 10 grand, I do a shitload of research for months to make sure it's what I really really want since I'm dropping the coin on it.

I guess I'm not stupid after all :nilly:

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by Cobra Commander
Bring back the Firebird with a blown LS7 that runs 10s and sell it for $25K.

I'd bankrupt the company but would be remembered forever as a hero to LS2.com.

:yay: All hail Cobra Commander. :woot:

[Carsnob]

Originally posted by dave1w41
Lets go over this point by point:



What about the 90% of customers who won't accept RWD? What are you going to sell to them? GM's FWD large midsize and fullsize cars are very successful despite the fact that a lot of people find them unexiting. The W-Car line is the biggest selling line of vehicles sold in this country.

That's because of fleet sales. Price them the same and the fleet managers wouldn't care.
RWD is working for DC with the 300/magnum/charger. Also works for BMW and Benz who seem to have no trouble convincing their customers to buy dispite being rwd. Even Infinity is finding the virtues of rwd in it's cars and I don't see anybody running away from those.

FWD is NOT better and most people have never driven a rwd car since the japanese brainwashed us and most cars are fwd now. Put those people in the same car with rwd and they will like that it rides and handles better. It will also lower the cost of ownership as they will have lower maintenance due to the fact that the motor and transmission won't be crammed into such a small space (easier to work on) and even their tires will last longer. With traction control advances these days rwd is a no brainer.


Done - have you seen that new Impala yet?

nope :(


Well it isn't that drastic but there is a plan in place to do something exactly like that. Total Value Promise. More equipment, lower price, hinging on GM's overall good quality picture. see... their listening to me already. I know your reading this Bob. PM me for details on payment options.



Forget it. Can't be done. Dealer owners have between 2 and 20 million dollars in invested captol - each. Every one of them would have to be bought out to the last penny. By the lowest estimate I can figure, it would cost 40 billion dollars to do that. Which is about 39 Billion dollars more than GM has.

Well !@#$ then they need to initiate a standarization program that significantly penalizes the dealerships that don't conform either by limiting supplies or their ability to get cars. Drive the ones that don't perform up to par out of buisness.

No comments on the accountant tests? :(

[Carsnob]

Originally posted by Bird of Fire
Horrific idea. Do the math of the mpg achieved by a vehicle that's offered with and without hybrid technology. Do that combined with the MSRP of each car.

Then get back to me and let me know how many years it takes before people start to see a savings at the pump. It's around 5-6 years on average IIRC at the CURRENT gas prices.

Battery technology needs to come a long way and become cheaper before we'll start to see a drop in pricing on it.

Not to mention recycling the batteries is a process unto itself which doesn't exactly scrub the earth clean. It's a nasty process with left over chemicals that still pollutes. So essentially, robbing peter to pay paul.

yep, untill batteries cost less than it would cost to put a new motor in a car and they last 200,000 miles hybrids are a pipe dream kept afloat by math challenged hippies and treehuggers.

Same goes for hydrogen and electric cars. It takes more energy to crack the needed hydrogen molecule out of water or fossil fuels and then compress or liquify with extreme cold for vehicle use than you get from a gasoline to go the same distance. Electricity comes from burning coal or nuclear power plants - I can guarantee you that a coal plant puts out more pollution burning coal to make the electricity to power an electic car to run one mile than an internal combustion engine does burning gas to go the same mile.

[dave1w41]

That's because of fleet sales. Price them the same and the fleet managers wouldn't care.
That's because of fleet sales. Price them the same and the fleet managers wouldn't care. Fleets buy half a million GM cars a year? That's news to me.

RWD is working for DC with the 300/magnum/charger. Also works for BMW and Benz who seem to have no trouble convincing their customers to buy dispite being rwd. Even Infinity is finding the virtues of rwd in it's cars and I don't see anybody running away from those.


Infiniti only sells a tiny percentage of the cars that GM sells. Their sales can't even be compared to the GM W-Cars. Their cars are in a totally different market. GM's FWD full size/mid-size cars are competing against other FWD cars that make up 90% of the car market. Cars like the Ford Five Hundred, the Camry, Accord, Altima, Maxima, etc.

BMW and Mercedes Benz have virtually no customers in the range between $20,000 and $30,000. They compete with Cadillac, which as of now, has only one FWD car (DTS).
Chrysler's RWD cars combined sell about 2/3 as many units as a single Chevrolet Model. The Magnum and Charger are both sales disappointments. The only one that can be considered "successful" is the 300.
GM could stand to have more RWD cars but to completely get rid of the FWD cars between $20K and $30K would be totally wrong. It would be abandoning a piece of the market that GM has a very strong presence in.

FWD is NOT better and most people have never driven a rwd car since the japanese brainwashed us and most cars are fwd now. Put those people in the same car with rwd and they will like that it rides and handles better. It will also lower the cost of ownership as they will have lower maintenance due to the fact that the motor and transmission won't be crammed into such a small space (easier to work on) and even their tires will last longer. With traction control advances these days rwd is a no brainer.

FWD is still better anyplace you get snow. (You live in Jackson, MS, - Have you ever even seen snow let alone a road covered with 12" of it?)
FWD isn't better for pure handling, it is somewhat less advantageous for ride but there are tons of good riding and well isolated FWD cars. RWD cars are no cheaper to maintain and they have only marginally longer tire life. The problem biggest problem for RWD is that for most car buyers, there isn't any possibility that they will consider anything other than FWD. Hence the reason 90% of people drive FWD cars. If customers showed significant interest in RWD car companies would be tripping over each other to build them. There just simply is a very, very, limited market for RWD cars in the realm where people are considering "family" transportation.

Well !@#$ then they need to initiate a standarization program that significantly penalizes the dealerships that don't conform either by limiting supplies or their ability to get cars. Drive the ones that don't perform up to par out of buisness.


Happening now.

[Carsnob]

Ok last rebuttal on the rwd vs fwd.

A. How many of those 90% that own fwd cars also have a rwd truck in their automotive stable? I'm pretty sure rwd trucks sell almost 1:1 with cars these days. And they sell them to people that have to drive over 12" of snow and ice on the road.

B. How many of that 90% if you asked them could tell you which wheels motivated the car. My guess would be about 30-40%. They buy fwd because there is no other option. Name a mid-size sedan (honda accord size) less than 25k that allows the consumer a choice. There is none, but those people still need cars so they buy fwd. No choice does not mean they don't want it. I don't want it and I don't buy it. I would buy it given the choice.

FWD is still better anyplace you get snow. (You live in Jackson, MS, - Have you ever even seen snow let alone a road covered with 12" of it?)

yes I have seen snow and we get enough every 5 years or so to make the roads impassable.
:south: :p

[Carsnob]

Originally posted by dave1w41
That's because of fleet sales. Price them the same and the fleet managers wouldn't care. Fleets buy half a million GM cars a year? That's news to me.



And 37.7 percent of GM’s passenger cars are sold to fleet customers — a 10-year high.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0407/27/a01-223843.htm

So if we say GM sells 1,000,000 passenger cars a year and 37.7% go to fleet sales that is 377,000 cars. Pretty close to the half a million. And I'm sure GM sells more than 1 Million passenger cars a year.

[MACGI 98 Z28]

Ok last rebuttal on the rwd vs fwd.

A. How many of those 90% that own fwd cars also have a rwd truck in their automotive stable? I'm pretty sure rwd trucks sell almost 1:1 with cars these days. And they sell them to people that have to drive over 12" of snow and ice on the road.

B. How many of that 90% if you asked them could tell you which wheels motivated the car. My guess would be about 30-40%. They buy fwd because there is no other option. Name a mid-size sedan (honda accord size) less than 25k that allows the consumer a choice. There is none, but those people still need cars so they buy fwd. No choice does not mean they don't want it. I don't want it and I don't buy it. I would buy it given the choice.


A. Most trucks where I live are 4x4 or AWD. A RWD pickup is pretty useless where I live. I wouldn't want to navigate through snow up to the bottom of my doors with one. That is why I have an Avalanche. People who regularly get more than 8 inches of snow (which drifts all over the place up here) DO NOT buy many RWD pickups unless they live in the city. I have a 40 mile one-way commute to work. In winter 4WD/AWD is a good idea, FWD will get you there, even with traction control and stability control, I don't think a RWD car would get me to work.

B. Most people here know which wheels motivate their car. When you have to go through 4-10 inches of lake-effect snow four days a week between Thanksgiving and March 1, you get really good at knowing what gets through it better. Since we are forbidden from using chains or studs, RWD cars really don't work in rural areas. My road gets plowed once per day if it snows, no matter how much it snows.

So if we say GM sells 1,000,000 passenger cars a year and 37.7% go to fleet sales that is 377,000 cars. Pretty close to the half a million. And I'm sure GM sells more than 1 Million passenger cars a year.

A significant number of those sales are the Grand Am and old style Malibu (now the Classic), which are no longer available in the retail market but are sold for rental/fleet only.

[Carsnob]

This might be a better disscussion to have if the people in it weren't on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Our perspectives are a bit out of whack.

Where I live = threatens snow's everything closes.

Where Macgi and dave live = :woot: it's summer this week!!!

But I will still argue overall that if GM made all FULL SIZE cars rwd it would make sales figures climb. You can have your mailibu's and saturns fwd, but if it can have a v8 it NEEDS to be rwd PERIOD!

[MACGI 98 Z28]

But I will still argue overall that if GM made all FULL SIZE cars rwd it would make sales figures climb. You can have your mailibu's and saturns fwd, but if it can have a v8 it NEEDS to be rwd PERIOD!

I think GM should have something against the 300 on up against other Japanese & German Luxury brands with a RWD and DOD V-8 available, but not at the expense of their bread and butter cars...in ADDITION to them. I think the car should be Sigma-based and that at least Pontiac and/or Chevrolet should have a coupe.

I think they should have the bread and butter with a little Tuna Salad in between. :D

[dave1w41]

So if we say GM sells 1,000,000 passenger cars a year and 37.7% go to fleet sales that is 377,000 cars. Pretty close to the half a million. And I'm sure GM sells more than 1 Million passenger cars a year.


You are making my argument for me. Not all of GM's FWD cars go to fleets, not even close. The vast majority go into the hands of regular, discriminating customers. 62.3% go to regular customers.

[dave1w41]

But I will still argue overall that if GM made all FULL SIZE cars rwd it would make sales figures climb. You can have your mailibu's and saturns fwd, but if it can have a v8 it NEEDS to be rwd PERIOD!


I don't disagree with that at all. With the exception of the no FWD V8's issue I totally agree. The 2006 Impala, Monte Carlo, and Grand Prix with the 5.3 is a great package. It runs low 14's in the quarter and has a 6.x 0-60. I'm seriously considering the Impala.

[MapleRed]

Originally posted by dave1w41
I don't disagree with that at all. With the exception of the no FWD V8's issue I totally agree. The 2006 Impala, Monte Carlo, and Grand Prix with the 5.3 is a great package. It runs low 14's in the quarter and has a 6.x 0-60. I'm seriously considering the Impala.

Actually, they are running 0 - 60's in the 5's. I think they are good cars too. I'd like to see them making RWD full-size sedans as well as the fwd W-bodies.

[Carsnob]

Mmm, a chevy built on the CTS platform would be nice. I'm sure they could cheapen it up enough to drop the 5.3 in it and still price it about 29k. Maybe even have a manual transmission option.

Bring it back as the caprice :dunno:

[Carsnob]

Originally posted by MapleRed
Actually, they are running 0 - 60's in the 5's.

Just think how quick they'd be if they transfered their weight to the tires motivating it instead of lessening traction.

[Johnny_Pappis]

Originally posted by Berman
my plan: LS7 in everything :banana:

LS7 camaro, LS7 gto, LS7 colorado, LS7 cts-v, LS7 ssr, LS7 silverado, LS7 trailblazer SS..

my LS7 in everything plan would turn GM right around :D


i like where that is going :D

[NHRAMAN]

Originally posted by Berman
my plan: LS7 in everything :banana:

LS7 camaro, LS7 gto, LS7 colorado, LS7 cts-v, LS7 ssr, LS7 silverado, LS7 trailblazer SS..

my LS7 in everything plan would turn GM right around :D Welllllllll........OKAY!!!!!!!:D :cool: :2thumbs: :bow: :drive:

[Pesticide]

I'd bring some more of Holden's offerings to the US. My uncle who lives in New Zealand sent me a couple Holden brochures and they have it going on IMO. V8 powered, rear wheel drive everything.