Torque Convertors

[Borla]

For all you newbie A4 owners, or guys looking for that "one mod" that will really give you a kick in the SOTP, please do yourself a huge favor and look at torque convertors.

IMO it is the single best mod you can do for an A4. You'll want to make sure you pick the right one for your driving style, what you want out of your car, and the mods you plan, but there is one out there for everyone.

The torque convertor will not only immediately put you in the powerband off the line (making it the easiest, best, most consistent launch possible), but you will also lose any "dead-spots" from a roll.

My personal recommendation for anyone doing a TC is to also spend the $50 on getting a tranny cooler at the same time. Other very important modifications to team up with a TC are sticky tires, and some basic suspension mods. My recommendation for tires for the average user are drag radials. These are fine for the street (primarily for those that do not have to drive in rain or snow), and give a pretty good launch at the track. For your suspension, I'd try to put in some sub-frame connectors, and a strut-tower brace in to stiffen the chassis to take the harder launches you will get with a TC and DRs. :cool:



Just my $.02..............my 3200 Vigilante TC was the best mod ever. I already had Nitto 555R's on the back. At the same time as the TC, I added a B&M Tranny cooler, had the PCM reprogrammed to delete the torque management, welded in SLP SFCs, and put on an SLP STB. :D I did the brakes, as shown in my sig too, but they effect a totally different aspect of performance. ;)

[Mattslots]

Best mod for A4 is a good verter....one thing though, go BIG the first time...you'll love yourself later. I went with a Midwest 3600 2.0 str and wish I had a 4000 with a 2.5 str.

-Matt

[ULTIMTEORANGESS]

i just bought a MW 3500.im looking forward to having it installed soon.:yay:

[C-B64]

just bought a TCI SSF 3500, cant wait for it to arrive and get it installed.....:D

[Blacker]

I have a Midwest 3600/2.0 and could not be hapier. I would always recommend a 3500+ the first time out.

[Bigdog]

I have the MW 3500/2.0. My only issue is traction. :D

[Blacker]

Some big, fat Nitto's will help:D

[Bino]

I have a Yank 3500 best mod i ever did :)

[99SSleeper]

I took everyones advice and went semi-big the first time...I got a MW 3500 2.0str.

Come springtime, it will be going in as well as a set of Nittos. I already have the B&M 24K cooler and an Autometer Phantom Trans temp guage installed:D

Waitin on spring!!!

[12Gauge]

Would someone enlighten me on str's? In the posts above I see 2.0, 2.5, ect. Thanks.

[Mattslots]

Originally posted by 12Gauge
Would someone enlighten me on str's? In the posts above I see 2.0, 2.5, ect. Thanks.

Stall Torque Ratio = how hard the verter hits the tires. It really is a way to tell how the torque is multiplied through the verter. A 2.0 str will double the motors torque, 2.5 is two and half times the motor torque...etc...etc..... Thats the best way to explain it.

[Michael]

And when you get a bigger stall make sure you tune it, be it with hpp3, Diablo, whatever to change your shiftpoints so you don't bang the rev limiter when you nail it. I believe '01-'02's have problems with tq managment as well.

[DebianDog]

Get Big Verter - Yes!

Get a Trans Cooler - Yes!

Change your shift points - Yes!

All very good ideas :cool:

With the STR remember bigger the number the more torque you will have launching but the less you will have up top. Anything less than drag radials and I, absolutely, cannot go full throttle in first gear. That is with a 2.5 STR and 2.73 gears in back. Fun but I have to watch my foot at the light or run DR's all the time.

This summer I put my car into the guardrail because of the DR's. Stuck in heavy rain driving slow at 45 MPH (I have not had a car wreak in 18 years) Something to think about.

It is best to talk with a few experienced people about what you want out of the car, what gears you have in back, rubber you will be running, and what mods you have or plan on having soon. Before dropping $500-$1000 bucks.


Debian Dog
2001 Trans-Am - A4 w/2.73 Steel Driveshaft - Full weight
Mods: FTRA, K&N filter, High-Flo Air lid, TBB, Cold-air GMAF, Venom VCN-2000 N2O, Comp 224/228 Nitrous Cam, SVO 30# injectors, 255LPH Walbro pump, Yank 3000 TT w/2.5 STR, TransGo H2 Shift Kit, Predator Tuning, Pro Built Tranny, Kooks LTs, Flowmaster 80, QTP Cutout
Best Times 1/4 before cam, LT's, and injectors
60' - 1.73
N/A - 12.91@106.51
N2O - 11.53@122.78 ~135 shot

My Blue -n- White T/A (http://www.danslagle.com/interests/2001TA/) - Listen to the 224/228 w/ FlowMaster closed & open (http://www.dvmix.com/data/LS1COMP224_228cutout.mp3) - Timeslips (http://danslagle.com/interests/2001TA/images/11.5Sec.jpg) - Video of Run (http://www.dvmix.com/data/11SecTA.wmv)

[SteveC]

A TC change DOES make a huge difference, however if you own a 2001 or 2002 model, you must address the shift points AND Torque Management, in order to have the vehicle run properly.

JMHO

SteveC :)

[02BlackSSGirl]

I have the Yank SS 3800 and as everyone has already mentioned, it's the single best mod for an A4:)

[JandJsTA]

I went ViG 3200 and knocked of .4 by simply adding ET streets :thumbup:







Joe

2002 WS6 TA/A4 ASC # 5610
MACs,SLP STB,BMR SFCs,Spohn LCAs-PHR,VIG 3200
RWHP 326.3 RWTQ 345.6 Dyno (http://www3.sympatico.ca/joesabourin/Dyno1.JPG) before MACs
ET 12.67 @ 105.6 mph 1.69 60ft Slip (http://www3.sympatico.ca/joesabourin/Timeslip2.jpg)
J&JsTA (http://www3.sympatico.ca/joesabourin/) Toronto F-Body Motorsports (http://www.tfbm.org)

[jlayer]

I went with the Midwest 3200/2.0 and although I should have went higher.....I am quite happy with the performance I got out of the car. A 3600/2.2 might go in at the end of the year though. :D

[mshiznitzh]

Originally posted by Matt B 02_Z
Stall Torque Ratio = how hard the verter hits the tires. It really is a way to tell how the torque is multiplied through the verter. A 2.0 str will double the motors torque, 2.5 is two and half times the motor torque...etc...etc..... Thats the best way to explain it.

It only reaches the stated str well approaching the stall speed.

[Blacker]

The higher the STR, the more inefficient the converter is over its rated stall speed. Food for thought:D

[DaveX]

I have a new TCI SSF3500 sitting in the garage waiting for me to find time to install it. I got a good deal on it but I kind of wish I'd bought a verter with a lower str but hopefully it will be ok with the 273's since I don't plan on changing them anytime soon. I don't plan on runnig dr's all the time. What do you guys think?

[Luke]

I went with a midwest 3400/2.0 I think I could easily handle a 4000 though.

[Joel_SS]

All,

TC's are the best.. I did a write up on the SS3800.. ( I need to update it )

www.jrlawns.com/converter/my.htm

And here is a survey I did of a bunch of diffrent companies.

www.jrlawns.com/converter/default.htm

[C-B64]

Originally posted by KY LS1
I have a new TCI SSF3500 sitting in the garage waiting for me to find time to install it. I got a good deal on it but I kind of wish I'd bought a verter with a lower str but hopefully it will be ok with the 273's since I don't plan on changing them anytime soon. I don't plan on runnig dr's all the time. What do you guys think?

I've gotten one of them as well, and mine is waiting to go in as well, we are gonna try and do mine not this weekedn but next. I have 2.73's now but im gonna go with 3.42's and im gonna run nitto's........

Chrismcdaniel seems to like his TCI. He said it was an easy install......

[ShiftinS6]

Here is an interesting article taken from PIs website.

THE TRUTH ABOUT STALL TORQUE RATIO
STR has been talked and argued about for many years. The following information is what we at Precision Industries have found by doing our own testing to be helpful for you to try to understand this subject. Our competitors must have a crystal ball to figure the STR of their torque converters. There are a couple of companies in the performance torque converter business that do have the capability to test STR, MOST DO NOT! Precision Industries happens to be one that does have. Our test dyno has the capability to test from 200 ft. lbs. of torque up to 900 ft. lbs. of torque. The other companies use dynamometers that vary from 100 ft. lb. of torque to approximately 300 ft. lb. of torque. There is an old GM printed sheet that has floated around our industry for about 10 years showing the STR of stock GM torque converters that were built back then. Our competitors either use this sheet or are guessing because they have no way of knowing what the STR really is. They also advertise STR’s of 2.7, 2.9, 3.0, 3.2, etc. this is pure BS. All torque converter companies use the impellers, turbines and stators that come in the factory torque converters. In our tests we have never seen an STR over 2.55. Precision Industries do have torque converters with STR over 2.55 but these units have specially machined stators in them and are not worth the high cost for a street/strip application. If our competitors try to tell you differently just ask them to show you a picture of their test machine, not just a printout. The formula for STR is EXACT OUTPUT TORQUE ÷ EXACT INPUT TORQUE = STR. This requires a known power source and a data recovery system. STR is just what the name implies. The ratio of torque multiplication at stall. As soon as the turbine rotates (car moves) the ratio starts dropping rapidly until enough RPM has been reached for the ratio to drop to 1:1. The RPM that the ratio reaches 1:1 varies depending on other factors in and out of the torque converter such as impeller exit angle, stator design, impeller to turbine clearance, input torque (engine), etc. A fact that most everyone overlooks is that a torque converter does not make torque! It takes the torque the engine produces and multiplies it for a very short period of time. This is why some cars perform better than others with the same torque converter.

Some car enthusiasts put all kinds of money in the engine, transmission, torque converter, NOS, rear end gears, etc. then want to cripple the torque converter by lowering the STR to try and prevent wheel spin on take off. This is as foolish as pulling off one of the plug wires. Why don’t they finish the project and work on the rear suspension? Trying to tune your car by using STR is probably not very smart seeing how our competitors don’t have a clue about what STR their converters have, after all the stock torque converter you took out of your car has a STR of 1.9-1.94. The best way to get the right torque converter for your car is to buy it from a company that has a large database of previous sales for your kind of car. Then tell the sales person what mods you have made and what mods you intend to make and let that person help with the decision. The key words here are large database. The “Johnny come lately companies” have no large database or experience with what works with these late vehicles. Why try to reinvent the wheel with your hard earned money when there is bound to be someone in our database that has the same mods as you do and their torque converter/engine combination ROCKS! At Precision Industries we found out 10 years ago that STR is not the most important consideration when deciding on a torque converter it is the whole COMBINATION!

[DebianDog]

I would like to see what Mike Senia (at Yank) has to say about all that. I emailed him.

[DebianDog]

From Mike at Yank, now on website.

Stall Torque Ratios: Only two companies in the performance converter business have the capabilities and resources to test the actual stall torque ratios and efficiencies of the converters they produce. Yank and Precision Industries. All the other companies are making false claims based on untested combinations. Don't be fooled. Yank has all of their converters tested for actual efficiency and stall torque ratio by using General Motors' $1 million dollar transmission dyno. Yank has spent years in the efforts to bring you converters with the highest stall torque ratios and the highest efficiencies. Rarely do stall torque ratios exceed 2.5. It takes specially machined stators (that are modified in-house by Yank) and specific pump/turbine combinations to get STRs above 2.5 along with a converter that has efficiency above 95%. We're here to tell you, it's not easy. Even if the competition copied our internal components 100%, they still lack the knowledge of which internal clearances achieve the ultimate blend of torque multiplication and efficiency.

Efficiency: It is rare for a race converter to have efficiency that meets or exceeds a stock unit. Yank rates their converter efficiency in the rpm ranges most used by performance enthusiasts: 5000-6000 rpms. Many of Yank's competitors' converters do not achieve maximum efficiency until they exceed 10,000 rpms! That's crazy. Don't be mislead by false claims. Yank's efficiency claims are tested by General Motors for accuracy. The Truth!

[Unstang]

I am happy with my 3200 Yank, but I could handle a 3800. I had not basis for comparison when I bought my converter, no stalled LS1s around here...


My converter is a 2.8 STR & I did not lose any mph in the 1/4...

[Kurupted WS6]

VIG3600 best mod ive got for the car :D from 8.2 to 7.8 on the 1/8th

[TheSilverSurfer]

Originally posted by BlueZ71
Here is an interesting article taken from PIs website.

THE TRUTH ABOUT STALL TORQUE RATIO
STR has been talked and argued about for many years. The following information is what we at Precision Industries have found by doing our own testing to be helpful for you to try to understand this subject. Our competitors must have a crystal ball to figure the STR of their torque converters. There are a couple of companies in the performance torque converter business that do have the capability to test STR, MOST DO NOT! Precision Industries happens to be one that does have. Our test dyno has the capability to test from 200 ft. lbs. of torque up to 900 ft. lbs. of torque. The other companies use dynamometers that vary from 100 ft. lb. of torque to approximately 300 ft. lb. of torque. There is an old GM printed sheet that has floated around our industry for about 10 years showing the STR of stock GM torque converters that were built back then. Our competitors either use this sheet or are guessing because they have no way of knowing what the STR really is. They also advertise STR’s of 2.7, 2.9, 3.0, 3.2, etc. this is pure BS. All torque converter companies use the impellers, turbines and stators that come in the factory torque converters. In our tests we have never seen an STR over 2.55. Precision Industries do have torque converters with STR over 2.55 but these units have specially machined stators in them and are not worth the high cost for a street/strip application. If our competitors try to tell you differently just ask them to show you a picture of their test machine, not just a printout. The formula for STR is EXACT OUTPUT TORQUE ÷ EXACT INPUT TORQUE = STR. This requires a known power source and a data recovery system. STR is just what the name implies. The ratio of torque multiplication at stall. As soon as the turbine rotates (car moves) the ratio starts dropping rapidly until enough RPM has been reached for the ratio to drop to 1:1. The RPM that the ratio reaches 1:1 varies depending on other factors in and out of the torque converter such as impeller exit angle, stator design, impeller to turbine clearance, input torque (engine), etc. A fact that most everyone overlooks is that a torque converter does not make torque! It takes the torque the engine produces and multiplies it for a very short period of time. This is why some cars perform better than others with the same torque converter.

Some car enthusiasts put all kinds of money in the engine, transmission, torque converter, NOS, rear end gears, etc. then want to cripple the torque converter by lowering the STR to try and prevent wheel spin on take off. This is as foolish as pulling off one of the plug wires. Why don’t they finish the project and work on the rear suspension? Trying to tune your car by using STR is probably not very smart seeing how our competitors don’t have a clue about what STR their converters have, after all the stock torque converter you took out of your car has a STR of 1.9-1.94. The best way to get the right torque converter for your car is to buy it from a company that has a large database of previous sales for your kind of car. Then tell the sales person what mods you have made and what mods you intend to make and let that person help with the decision. The key words here are large database. The “Johnny come lately companies” have no large database or experience with what works with these late vehicles. Why try to reinvent the wheel with your hard earned money when there is bound to be someone in our database that has the same mods as you do and their torque converter/engine combination ROCKS! At Precision Industries we found out 10 years ago that STR is not the most important consideration when deciding on a torque converter it is the whole COMBINATION!

Thanks Blue :cool:

[BAIN]

Originally posted by BlueZ71
Here is an interesting article taken from PIs website.

THE TRUTH ABOUT STALL TORQUE RATIO
STR has been talked and argued about for many years. The following information is what we at Precision Industries have found by doing our own testing to be helpful for you to try to understand this subject. Our competitors must have a crystal ball to figure the STR of their torque converters. There are a couple of companies in the performance torque converter business that do have the capability to test STR, MOST DO NOT! Precision Industries happens to be one that does have. Our test dyno has the capability to test from 200 ft. lbs. of torque up to 900 ft. lbs. of torque. The other companies use dynamometers that vary from 100 ft. lb. of torque to approximately 300 ft. lb. of torque. There is an old GM printed sheet that has floated around our industry for about 10 years showing the STR of stock GM torque converters that were built back then. Our competitors either use this sheet or are guessing because they have no way of knowing what the STR really is. They also advertise STR’s of 2.7, 2.9, 3.0, 3.2, etc. this is pure BS. All torque converter companies use the impellers, turbines and stators that come in the factory torque converters. In our tests we have never seen an STR over 2.55. Precision Industries do have torque converters with STR over 2.55 but these units have specially machined stators in them and are not worth the high cost for a street/strip application. If our competitors try to tell you differently just ask them to show you a picture of their test machine, not just a printout. The formula for STR is EXACT OUTPUT TORQUE ÷ EXACT INPUT TORQUE = STR. This requires a known power source and a data recovery system. STR is just what the name implies. The ratio of torque multiplication at stall. As soon as the turbine rotates (car moves) the ratio starts dropping rapidly until enough RPM has been reached for the ratio to drop to 1:1. The RPM that the ratio reaches 1:1 varies depending on other factors in and out of the torque converter such as impeller exit angle, stator design, impeller to turbine clearance, input torque (engine), etc. A fact that most everyone overlooks is that a torque converter does not make torque! It takes the torque the engine produces and multiplies it for a very short period of time. This is why some cars perform better than others with the same torque converter.

Some car enthusiasts put all kinds of money in the engine, transmission, torque converter, NOS, rear end gears, etc. then want to cripple the torque converter by lowering the STR to try and prevent wheel spin on take off. This is as foolish as pulling off one of the plug wires. Why don’t they finish the project and work on the rear suspension? Trying to tune your car by using STR is probably not very smart seeing how our competitors don’t have a clue about what STR their converters have, after all the stock torque converter you took out of your car has a STR of 1.9-1.94. The best way to get the right torque converter for your car is to buy it from a company that has a large database of previous sales for your kind of car. Then tell the sales person what mods you have made and what mods you intend to make and let that person help with the decision. The key words here are large database. The “Johnny come lately companies” have no large database or experience with what works with these late vehicles. Why try to reinvent the wheel with your hard earned money when there is bound to be someone in our database that has the same mods as you do and their torque converter/engine combination ROCKS! At Precision Industries we found out 10 years ago that STR is not the most important consideration when deciding on a torque converter it is the whole COMBINATION!

That's pretty funny that PI can tell the exact STR of their converters, but cant figure out their own stall ratings (ie.. 2800 actually 3400, 3200 actually 3800, and 3600 actually 4200). :rolleyes: I think they need to get their own shit together before they start talking about other Companies and how they advertise their products:cool:

[DebianDog]

Originally posted by BAIN
That's pretty funny that PI can tell the exact STR of their converters, but cant figure out their own stall ratings (ie.. 2800 actually 3400, 3200 actually 3800, and 3600 actually 4200). :rolleyes: I think they need to get their own shit together before they start talking about other Companies and how they advertise their products:cool: :lolbash: :haha:

[ShiftinS6]

Originally posted by BAIN
That's pretty funny that PI can tell the exact STR of their converters, but cant figure out their own stall ratings (ie.. 2800 actually 3400, 3200 actually 3800, and 3600 actually 4200). :rolleyes: I think they need to get their own shit together before they start talking about other Companies and how they advertise their products:cool:

They know their stall ratings. They just like to give their customers an extra 400 stall as a bonus.

[MISOMWS6]

I'm not seeing many shift kits....any reason?? And if remember right TCI has all the equipment to test their verters in house, I remember this issue over at LS1TECH and Kevin Winstead (product engineer) said they have the proper equipment to test their verters and this info was backed by a few people that have visited their facilities and I believe he backed himself up with pictures........but I didn't see a nickle though:D

[Hooper]

Originally posted by C-B64
just bought a TCI SSF 3500, cant wait for it to arrive and get it installed.....:D
Me, too:) I also ordered a TransGo shift kit from Thunder Racing. I already have the B&M trans. cooler (24000gvw) installed.

[Miriah]

People have forgotten the all might "Pro Torque" converter. I started off with one of those a small 2800 stall and it was awesome!!! Then I steped up to the plate so I got a Vig 4400, after that at TCS 4400 and now I'm back to a VIG 3600 :)

KICK ASS MOD!!!!

[ULTIMTEORANGESS]

i also added a deeper trans pan and girdle and stud kit for added reinforcement and i highly recommend them both when adding a stall.

[ShadowLight]

How badly do 02 cars run without tuning? What's it cost to get TM deleted and shift points changed?

[DebianDog]

Originally posted by ShadowLight
How badly do 02 cars run without tuning? What's it cost to get TM deleted and shift points changed?

Depends usually cheaper to get a predator or other tuning tool. You will usually get 15-25 HP out of a good tune.

[jmd]

Originally posted by MISOMWS6
I'm not seeing many shift kits....any reason?? And if remember right TCI has all the equipment to test their verters in house, I remember this issue over at LS1TECH and Kevin Winstead (product engineer) said they have the proper equipment to test their verters and this info was backed by a few people that have visited their facilities and I believe he backed himself up with pictures........but I didn't see a nickle though:D

The speed of a shift is programmed through the PCM. Previous hydraulic-controlled transmissions relied on a hydraulic valve-body to determine shift speed, and the fine-tuning of those shifts was done with hardware instead of software. That's why shift kits are less relevant for the 4L60-E.

[Scotty]

How much gas mileage loss do you typically see with a 3000-3500 stall?

[XTrooper]

Let's see know...........

I started with a Yank TT2800/3.0 in my 1999 Camaro SS then switched to a Yank ST3500/2.5.

In the Corvette, I began with a Yank 3000/1.9 and very recently switched to a Yank SY3500/1.6.

I agree and have been saying for a long time now that a good, aftermarket torque converter is the single best mod you can do for your A4 car. A very close second is gears and they help you all the time, at any speed, and at every rpm. :thumbup:

[XTrooper]

Originally posted by Scotty-Z
How much gas mileage loss do you typically see with a 3000-3500 stall?

As with most things, this depends on how aggressively you drive your car and how often. If you pull away from a light "normally" the converter will lock up ~40 mph. Once locked, the stall speed of your converter is irrelevant and will have no effect on your gas mileage. Also, because of this, a high-stall converter will have very little effect on your highway gas mileage. :cool:

[ShadowLight]

Because some converters are more efficient than stock, your gas mileage on the highway may go up. My Midwest 3400 on my old TA gave me about 20 more per tank on the highway.

[ULTIMTEORANGESS]

i noticed no substantial gas mileage difference with my converter.



since ive added gears its been greatly effected.



well worth it for more driving enjoyment.:D