Who in here uses that nasty stuff called Nitrous?

[Dragracer1971]

And if u do, what size shot / kit r u using and what motor?

[Eugenio_SS]

I do:
presently on the car, NOS5177... it's on an LS1 :D
In 2-3 weeks, TNT-DP +300shot is going in... on an LS1 as well.

[CT Morgan]

Too scared. Seems cool though. ;)

LOL... so far about 250 rwhp shot is the largest the car has been run on. I don't see me exceeding a 300 rwhp shot.

[Black02SS]

100 shot. TNT kit on my stock bottom end 346. :D

At what is the point of your attached image?

[FirehawkNS]

NOS 5177 100 Shot. If I get my running a tad on the lean side condition worked out, I might up to a 125 shot!!

[Unstang]

100 shot most of the time, NOS 5177, stock LS1.

[Dragracer1971]

Originally posted by CT Morgan
Too scared. Seems cool though. ;)

LOL... so far about 250 rwhp shot is the largest the car has been run on. I don't see me exceeding a 300 rwhp shot.


Mr. Black it's just what i want to use for my aviator (spelling?) Can you help me with this?

On this 250 shot, was it on dyno r at track / street? I know that i'm new to this board, but i mean no harm....... :cool:

[DebianDog]

135 dry shot.

[GM Muscle]

125 dry shot on stock internals last year. This spring it will be a TNT 150+.

[Dragracer1971]

Man u guys aren't playing with these basically stock motors huh.......:cool:

[Unstang]

Originally posted by Dragracer1971
Man u guys aren't playing with these basically stock motors huh.......:cool:

I've seen them take a pretty good load of juice and still be reliable. (200 hp dry shots) :D

[Dragracer1971]

I'm seeing that most of ya'll like dry shots.....y is that?

[GOT SPD]

I am running a 300+ shot on my forged 346 and it is a wet kit. Wet kits seem to be more common on these cars than dry, especially when you get to the cars running 150 and up.

[Dragracer1971]

Yes Sir Mr. SPD, i agree with you 100%.....:D

[DebianDog]

Yep anything above a 125 shot and you "should" do wet. Tuning is easier that is for sure ;)

[CT Morgan]

Originally posted by Dragracer1971
Mr. Black it's just what i want to use for my aviator (spelling?) Can you help me with this?

On this 250 shot, was it on dyno r at track / street? I know that i'm new to this board, but i mean no harm....... :cool:

225 rwhp was run at the track during a test 1/8th run... netted a 6.4x @ 108 mph with a high 1.5x 60' and ~ 3,750lb race weight. The 250 was a dyno run prior to pulling the engine again and adding the o-ring / receiver groove setup. Both figures power figures SAE. Over 300 and I'm afraid of overpowering my current crank.

How would you mean any harm by that question? :confused:

[Unstang]

Originally posted by Dragracer1971
I'm seeing that most of ya'll like dry shots.....y is that?

It is my preference because I am spraying "small" amounts, the kit was easy to install & the price was right. If I were to do a bit more juice, I'd go with the TnT wet kit.

[1999Z28M6]

Im considering a 100 dry shot due to bang for the buck. If I like it I will upgrade to a TNT kit.

[Black02SS]

Originally posted by black_z
Im considering a 100 dry shot due to bang for the buck. If I like it I will upgrade to a TNT kit.

Not quite understanding this concept. You can most likely get a TNT kit for about 50$ more or just get a NX for about the same price. Can you explain in detail your reasoning?

[Black02SS]

Originally posted by Dragracer1971
I'm seeing that most of ya'll like dry shots.....y is that?


In my experience with dry kits, I personally don' t like them. Here is my reason. The ones that I have delt with personally ran too lean IMO for a n20 setup. To compensate for that you have to alter your base N/A tune which in turn hurts your N/A performance. With a wet kit you can dial your N/A in to where you want it minus some timing and adjust it for rich/lean with the jets in the kit. That way you have the best of both worlds.

Now if you only sprayed at the track or on occasions that you knew you were going to run N20, you could use a MAFT. Just dial the MAFT in where you need to be and switch back and forth. A pain in the ass in my opinion, but effective. Just my .02 on dry kits.

[FirehawkNS]

Originally posted by Black02SS
In my experience with dry kits, I personally don' t like them. Here is my reason. The ones that I have delt with personally ran too lean IMO for a n20 setup. To compensate for that you have to alter your base N/A tune which in turn hurts your N/A performance. With a wet kit you can dial your N/A in to where you want it minus some timing and adjust it for rich/lean with the jets in the kit. That way you have the best of both worlds.

Now if you only sprayed at the track or on occasions that you knew you were going to run N20, you could use a MAFT. Just dial the MAFT in where you need to be and switch back and forth. A pain in the ass in my opinion, but effective. Just my .02 on dry kits.

I have come to agree with this!! I went with a dry kit for two reasons. One was seeing two people with nitrous backfires (but I now know it was because they were spraying below 3,000), and the other was because I needed a way to limit myself on how big of a shot I went too. I needed to limit my self for the saftey of the motor and I knew that I couldn't resist a 150 shot if I had a wet kit. But now that I know I could resist it (heck I only wet through 1 bottle last year) and I have to buy a MAFT becuase my 100 shot is running a little too lean for my taste!!

[DebianDog]

Originally posted by FirehawkNS
I have come to agree with this!! I went with a dry kit for two reasons. One was seeing two people with nitrous backfires (but I now know it was because they were spraying below 3,000), and the other was because I needed a way to limit myself on how big of a shot I went too. I needed to limit my self for the saftey of the motor and I knew that I couldn't resist a 150 shot if I had a wet kit. But now that I know I could resist it (heck I only wet through 1 bottle last year) and I have to buy a MAFT becuase my 100 shot is running a little too lean for my taste!!

I use the preadtor to richen it up and pull timing it the track for the larger shot but will eventually get a timing tuner and a DP wet kit. I do not like putting fuel in the intake. Seems wrong :shrug:

[FirehawkNS]

I would like to install something that would let me change the timing and richness with the flip of a switch. Don't know if there is anything that does that!! I heard that you should pull about 2 degrees for every 100hp so I figured a 2 degree pull would help me, but wouldn't want it running that way all the time!!

[DebianDog]

Originally posted by FirehawkNS
I would like to install something that would let me change the timing and richness with the flip of a switch. Don't know if there is anything that does that!! I heard that you should pull about 2 degrees for every 100hp so I figured a 2 degree pull would help me, but wouldn't want it running that way all the time!!

Timing tuner scroll down (http://www.tbyrnemotorsports.com/ls1catalog.html)
The Timing Tuner is a device that is installed on LS1 and derivative engine equipped vehicles for adjusting the spark advance ‘timing’ to extract improved engine performance. The unit installs ‘in-line’ with the crankshaft sensor wiring and alters the signal that is received by the PCM (Powertrain Control Module, ‘engine computer’). By shifting the crankshaft signal ahead or behind in time the spark timing in the engine is changed.

The Timing Tuner is used to adjust the Spark Advance to improve engine response and power. Assuming sufficient octane fuel is used, most production engines will make more power with a few more degrees of spark advance. However when Nitrous Oxide or superchargers/turbochargers are used to raise horsepower the spark advance must be reduced (retarded) to prevent detonation. Detonation (pinging, spark knocking) is very destructive and is to be avoided. Always run high enough octane fuel for the power levels desired.

The Timing Tuner also has a Nitrous Oxide (N2O) control feature. The unit features activation delay, timing retard, and activation controls based on RPM. The setup can be optimized for non-N2O driving and when the trigger wire is energized the secondary settings are activated. This ensures the optimum setting is always available both with and without N2O.

[Black02SS]

The direct link to Tbyrne's site doesn't point to the Timing Tuner. Go to Induction/nitrous section and you will see it at the bottom of the page. This will pull the desired timing that you want but still doesn't change your fuel problem with a dry kit. Now if you can hook this up in conjunction with a MAFT, then we have a winner. But then again, for the money, why not just get edit and have unlimited tunes?? ;)

[Dragracer1971]

Originally posted by CT Morgan
225 rwhp was run at the track during a test 1/8th run... netted a 6.4x @ 108 mph with a high 1.5x 60' and ~ 3,750lb race weight. The 250 was a dyno run prior to pulling the engine again and adding the o-ring / receiver groove setup. Both figures power figures SAE. Over 300 and I'm afraid of overpowering my current crank.

How would you mean any harm by that question? :confused:


CT it was Black02SS that asked what i meant by the pic that i orginally posted, when i started this thread. Sorry for confusing ya'll two....lol

Never the less, those are some good times with and w/o the juice. What are the tracks that ya'll go to in TX?

[QWIKLS1]

125 Shot when the weather is above 80 degrees F. 100 Shot in the winter time.

Venom VCN1000 Dry Kit on a basically stock (otherwise) motor cept for a few small minor mods.

I went with a dry kit, because I don't anticipate ever wanting to go more than a 125 shot. :shrug: I also don't wanna have to mess with PSI, etc.

Then again, this isn't Texas/Florida where everone and their grandpa has a quick car. ;) I can see how you guys wanna keep up with your buds running 150 wets. :yup:



Matt

[LS1nut]

125 NOS 5177 kit.

planning to convert to a TNT wet kit before the end of this racing season if the money holds out.

damn this car is gonna break my ass.

[jaywoo]

NX Wet Kit with a 150 shot on pump gas, soon a 200 shot with a mix of race gas at the track.

[TCR98WS6]

Dragracer, I would never spray my motor. Spray is unnatural. Fog it maybe, but never spray it..........;)

But if were to spray it, it would damn sure be an NX system.

[Dragracer1971]

jaywoo i'd say ur pushing it with the pump gas on a 150 shot and it will bite u in the ass sonner or later, plus mixing pump gas with race fuel will do the same.... just an opinion for a grand stand guy.....:D

PS...TCR u sound like ur a NX dealer......;)

[jaywoo]

Originally posted by Dragracer1971
jaywoo i'd say ur pushing it with the pump gas on a 150 shot and it will bite u in the ass sonner or later, plus mixing pump gas with race fuel will do the same.... just an opinion for a grand stand guy.....:D

PS...TCR u sound like ur a NX dealer......;)

150 is fine. No knock at all, and my techedge wideband says that the 12.0:1 fuel when I'm spraying is perfect. :) And how will mixing race gas with pump fuel hurt in anyway? Higher octane = better (slower) combustion = less detonation. I've auto tapped many pulls and haven't had any problems at all.

[DebianDog]

Originally posted by jaywoo
Ummm, no I'm not. 150 is fine. No knock at all, and my techedge wideband says that the 12.0:1 fuel when I'm spraying is perfect. :) And how will mixing race gas with pump fuel hurt in anyway? Higher octane = better (slower) combustion = less detonation.

Well unless it is "unleaded" race gas your O2 sensors will eventually go. Otherwise I do not know WTF he is talking about. A secondary fuel system with race gas it like the "perfect" way to go.

[jaywoo]

Originally posted by DebianDog
Well unless it is "unleaded" race gas your O2 sensors will eventually go. Otherwise I do not know WTF he is talking about. A secondary fuel system with race gas it like the "perfect" way to go.

It is 104 unleaded race gas. The pump gas is 93 octane.

[Dragracer1971]

Originally posted by jaywoo
150 is fine. No knock at all, and my techedge wideband says that the 12.0:1 fuel when I'm spraying is perfect. :) And how will mixing race gas with pump fuel hurt in anyway? Higher octane = better (slower) combustion = less detonation. I've auto tapped many pulls and haven't had any problems at all.


Well i didn't mean it to argue, but if u think about what u just said (Higher octane = better (slower) combustion = less detonation), if u have different fuels mixed and burning together how will u optamize the fuels burning efficency to maxamize the HP? And when u throw Nitrous in the mix, all it can do is cause more problems.

Using pump gas (even premium) on a 150 shot is a bomb waiting to go off, in my opinion and i can tell u from experience that it will definatly not work with 200. I experimented with that many years ago.

When u go fuel up ur vehicle do u put reg grade, med grade and then top it off with premium? All i mean by this is that i will not do it anymore, i've been there / done that and got a big bill from it.


Debian before u get all bent out of shape, please read what i wrote slowly. Using the fuel set up like u said will work (not perfect in my opinion), but i'll say it again mixing fuels will one day bite u in the azz.....:(

[jaywoo]

Man, you're losing me. When you throw in fuel, it's not like they are layering. Say 5 gallons of 100 octane, and 10 gallons of 93 octane will yeild 15 gallons of 96 (or so, I don't want to do algebra this morning:) ) This has been going on for years in the F.I community. I've been around turbo cars (DSMs mostly) quite a it. Very common to throw in some race gas so the boost can be increased.

As far as the bomb waiting to go off, I will say this. The car is tuned (I have LS-1edit), it's been data logged with an autotap many many times, and I have a built in techedge wideband O2 sensor for Air/fuel. 150 shot really isn't that large of a shot either. But, to each his own, right?

[Dragracer1971]

Sorry i'm not trying to loose u...lol And yes to each his own and what works for them. I never said anyone was wrong, i was just stating my opinions. By the way i'm a carb'd guy and i agree that 150 isn't that big of a shot.....:)

[jaywoo]

My whole point was that the kit wasn't just thrown on. It's been tuned (not alot of tuning to do with a wet kit, just brought the timing back about 4*), and is alway monitored. Besides, if I ever fry the motor, it's a pretty good excuse to go for an all forged 383. :p

[Dragracer1971]

There is tuning to do with wet kit's, but why not just go B/B if u hurt u motor?

[jaywoo]

No Big block, the most I think I would do would be a bore/stroke 6.0l truck block. I guess I would be looking at a 422 if I did all of that, though. Nah, 383 is enough for me. With a 300 direct port of course. :D

[Dragracer1971]

LOL it say's never fast enough next to ur avator.....:p

For now 468 with Gemini Twin Pro Power Super Sucker (100 - 500) plate for first stage and Pro Shark (200 - 600) for second stage will be enough, till i put it all on my 496......:D

Which DP are u going with?

[jaywoo]

Most likely NX. So far I've had pretty good luck with their stuff. The kit I have on the car now is all NX (the kit, bottle opener and heater). The only non-NX thing I'm using is the MSD window switch.

[hardcore]

Originally posted by DebianDog
I use the predator to richen it up and pull timing it the track for the larger shot but will eventually get a timing tuner and a DP wet kit. I do not like putting fuel in the intake. Seems wrong :shrug:


I'm running a compucar Bottle in a bag converted to a permanent install (medium jet =75 Shot). I'm doing the same thing with the predator adding fuel and pulling timing. I have had very good results so far.

[Dragracer1971]

Originally posted by jaywoo
Most likely NX. So far I've had pretty good luck with their stuff. The kit I have on the car now is all NX (the kit, bottle opener and heater). The only non-NX thing I'm using is the MSD window switch.


You'll be very satisified with the DP from NX.....;)

[DebianDog]

Originally posted by hardcore
I'm running a compucar Bottle in a bag converted to a permanent install (medium jet =75 Shot). I'm doing the same thing with the predator adding fuel and pulling timing. I have had very good results so far.

11.8 is a sweet time for a 75 shot bro!

[hardcore]

Originally posted by DebianDog
11.8 is a sweet time for a 75 shot bro!

Thanks man, The car goes 12.6x@110 off the bottle

[1FSTSS]

125 dry on my LT1 but i just threw a rod, so im doin forged internals and gonna up my shot to 250 wet or so.

[CT Morgan]

Originally posted by Dragracer1971
There is tuning to do with wet kit's, but why not just go B/B if u hurt u motor?

Big blocks in a 4th gen EFI f-body??? LOL... I don't think you'll see many of us doing that kind of conversion. ;) It works great for old school or dedicated modern race cars on custom chassis's, but that's not a fit for most of us. ;)

I'll keep my modern street car and just accept that certain limitations will apply. :D

[Dragracer1971]

Originally posted by CT Morgan
Big blocks in a 4th gen EFI f-body??? LOL... I don't think you'll see many of us doing that kind of conversion. ;) It works great for old school or dedicated modern race cars on custom chassis's, but that's not a fit for most of us. ;)

I'll keep my modern street car and just accept that certain limitations will apply. :D


What's so strange about EFI B/B's in a 4th gen f-body??? I know of atleast two street 4th gens with EFI 540's in them, with a few chassis mods, but not custom chassis's.

Well anyway i hope u can atleast make it out to the race and have some fun / win $$$...... ;)

[317indy]

231 c.i.d V6 3.8 Camaro with a nitrous express 100shot.:cool:

[GOT SPD]

Originally posted by 317indy
231 c.i.d V6 3.8 Camaro with a nitrous express 100shot.:cool:

I really wish you would have told us you were only a v6 when we were telling you how to wire the window switch. The reason it probably didn't work was you had it set for a V8.

[primate]

100 shot tnt dry kit on a stock 99ta vert (only other mod is a lid)

[CT Morgan]

Originally posted by Dragracer1971
What's so strange about EFI B/B's in a 4th gen f-body??? I know of atleast two street 4th gens with EFI 540's in them, with a few chassis mods, but not custom chassis's.

Well anyway i hope u can atleast make it out to the race and have some fun / win $$$...... ;)

I guess I just consider that a serious deviation from the LSx platform as most others do as well (clear indication based on the lack of interest of such a conversion on these sites).

I would be interested in hearing the details of these BB converted f-bodies. We'll have to make our own decisions on that "street" comment. ;)

[Ed Blown Vert]

150 shot wet. Plan on switching to a dual-stage.

[Dragracer1971]

CT ur right about the "Street" comment, but i think "Everyone" has a version of what street means right?

The guys with the BB converted f-bodies are over in Al and Ga area. They come on over this way to Louisiana for TR EFI race yearly event at NPR. I have yet to see any locals try it.

PS... U never answered my pm?


Originally posted by CT Morgan
I guess I just consider that a serious deviation from the LSx platform as most others do as well (clear indication based on the lack of interest of such a conversion on these sites).

I would be interested in hearing the details of these BB converted f-bodies. We'll have to make our own decisions on that "street" comment. ;)

[CT Morgan]

Originally posted by Dragracer1971
CT ur right about the "Street" comment, but i think "Everyone" has a version of what street means right?

The guys with the BB converted f-bodies are over in Al and Ga area. They come on over this way to Louisiana for TR EFI race yearly event at NPR. I have yet to see any locals try it.

PS... U never answered my pm?

I thought I did... I'll recheck though! :)

I know a couple guys have switched to the "stock suspended f-body" category and are running non-GM Gen 3 engines, but I think they are actually still running SBC's though. I'll have to check. It is certainly easier to build a SBC / BBC engine to hold tremendous power compared to the LS1 / Gen 3 engines. Head retention is a real bitch on these engines and on the aluminum blocks crank "walk" is an issue too.

[Dragracer1971]

Originally posted by CT Morgan
I thought I did... I'll recheck though! :)

I know a couple guys have switched to the "stock suspended f-body" category and are running non-GM Gen 3 engines, but I think they are actually still running SBC's though. I'll have to check. It is certainly easier to build a SBC / BBC engine to hold tremendous power compared to the LS1 / Gen 3 engines. Head retention is a real bitch on these engines and on the aluminum blocks crank "walk" is an issue too.


I'm from the old school with having only built carb'd gen-4 BB's for my car(s). I did borrow / use a SB (383) from a buddy and i guess by me winning a B&M 1/8 race at NPR, i shoulda kept it huh.....LOL