1st official brake light problem

[NBMWSsix]

Courtesy of Constrictor and I now have the same problem :mad:

What happens is when I push my foot on the brake, only my 3rd brake light (in the spoiler) lights up, the main lights dont. However, when my headlights are on, the low brightness filaments come on, and when I turn on either turn signal, the lights blink the high brightness filaments. So, the problem is NOT a burned out light bulb.

I used a trace light and traced the wire that activates the brake lights all the way up the drivers side of the car and found where it goes up under the dash. There is a separate wire for the 3rd brake light, which leads me to believe why this one is working.

I checked the fuse, and the fuse is for all 3 brake lights so obviously thats not the problem.

Using my test light, I was able to determine that the single wire (forget the color) for the brakes is not getting a signal when I push the brake pedal.

I can't quite follow the wire all the way up into the dashboard, because it goes into a huge cluster of wires and then it disappears behind the fuse panel.

Currently, I have a SPST relay triggered to send 12v to the wire that activates the brake lights, whever it detects a load on the wire for the 3rd brake light. So in other words, the main brake lights are being powered by the 3rd brake light. This works, however, it screws up my turn signals when I am also braking.

I want to find the cause for this, does anyone have any ideas?


:help:

[Cliff_J]

We ran into this exact problem. A real head scratcher until we located the source of the inconsistent lights where the 3rd BL was solid as a rock. Replaced the brake light switch assembly at first, no luck.

Our problem was the wires themselves had a break in them (ha ha, no pun intended) so if you put the steering wheel all the way up or all the way down the brake lights would work, but any position in-between they worked erratically. Huge ah-ha! moment to find that!

Since you're already just bypassing the switch/wiring with a relay, it sounds like your grounds and whatnot are fine, and you may have the same problem. To test, find the wire in the turn signal plug assembly that's fed power from the brake light switch to the turn signal switch. IIRC it was a dark blue or light blue wire that feeds the brake light switch output into the turn signal assembly. Then find the respective brake light outputs (you should have those figured out :) ) and check for continuity. Or just back the car up against a wall and with the brake depressed put the column up/down to see if you have like the same connection/bad connection.

$50 at the dealer for the wire switch assembly. Kinda tricky to put in but I've taken apart more GM columns than I care to remember so it wasn't too bad, but you do need a steering wheel puller and lock ring compressor (or strong hands with stamina and a friend to pull the lock ring) so you may want the (gasp!) dealer to do it since the labor is somewhat offset by the tool cost.

Good luck.
Cliff

[NBMWSsix]

Happen to have a part number?:D

[Cliff_J]

Sorry, don't think I still have the box, just went to the parts dept and got the part.

Like I said above, its a huge PITA to tear apart the column so make sure you troubleshoot it well enough before diving in, and be careful with the ABS slipring!

Cliff

[NBMWSsix]

I fixed it! :woot: Thanks to Cliff_J and Constrictor for having the problem isolated.

The part number is GM# 01995963
Part name is Hazard/Turn signal switch wiring assembly. Here is what it looks like.
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/brakeswitch/wiring20harness.jpg

This part provides power to the door chime, horn, signals, brake lights, and hazards.

I removed the other part and installed the new one and everything works now. Brakes, turn signals, hazards.

I didn't take pictures of everything because some of it is not too difficult to do and kind of obvious to figure out.

Here is what you are going to need:

Tools:
Steering wheel removal tool/lockplate compressor. Bought at Harbor Freight Tools for $20.
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/brakeswitch/steering20lockplate20tool.jpg

Philips screwdriver.
Torx Screwdriver.
Or this multi-purpose Craftsman screwdriver kit. ($20) Worth it IMO.
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/brakeswitch/multi20screwdriver.jpg

AND Wire Cutters.


First disconnect the fuses for the SRS airbag and the brake, horn, etc. You don't want anything to touch or short out causing more headaches.

Remove the airbag by completely loosening the two screws on the back side of the steering wheel. They are T-30 torx screws. Once you have loosened them you will want to unplug the yellow wire connected to the airbag.

Next unplug the the black wiring harness connected to the stereo controls.

Now we are ready to remove the steering wheel. Before removing anything using a sharpie marker you will want to mark the steering wheel and the end of the bolt to make sure you can line them up correctly when putting things back together.

Using a 7/8" socket loosen and remove the large bolt. Now using the steering wheel puller, setup the bolts with the tool and remove the steering wheel. Feed the wires for the airbag and stereo controls through the hole.

Now this is what we are looking at.


http://www.ls2.com/boggs/brakeswitch/lockplate20removal20web.jpg

After removing the the small lockspring which I used two small flathead screwdrivers and some patience. The lockspring is the one on the bottom and the wavy washer was located behind the lockplate.
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/brakeswitch/lockspring20and20washer.jpg

The lockplate came off and left me looking at this.
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/brakeswitch/wiring20harness20removal.jpg

You will need to remove the screw holding the signal stick in place (You can see the hole right above the scredriver in the pic) and the three other screws holding the harnes in place.

Once you have done this you will need to remove the the two panels on the underside of the steering column. The first panel with the trunk/hatch release and then the second panel right above your feet. This will reveal all the wiring around the steering column. I apologize for not taking pictures of this but I suppose you can trace the wires down the column. The wiring harness will come out about 4-5 inches if you pull on it. Then trace the wires down. To make things easy for you. The connector for the correct wiring harness is clipped onto the steering column shaft. Also the wire colors are different.

Disconnect this one and cut the wires as such.
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/brakeswitch/wiring20harness20connector.jpg

I tried to feed it back up through the column but could not. So just cut them now and pull the rest of the wires out.

At this time I plugged in the new harness just to make sure things worked. THEY DID and I was TeH MEGAHAPPY. I took out all the fuses again and installed the new harness by first sliding the connector through the column and then putting everything back.

Installation is opposite of removal. Took me about an 1-1.5 hours and I wasn't too sure of what to do except from what people had described. So hopefully with this you will have a couple of pics to help you along and know what to look for.

Good luck.

Constrictor time to undo all your temp fixes and do this. It wasn't very difficult at all.

[eboggs_jkvl]

I moved your Hoe to into the M&P forum. Well done. I also copied the pictures to our server for storage and the elimination of little red Xs later if the URL changes. (Mine changes weekly, mediaone, road runner, attbi, comcast whatever..)



That looks great. You are preserved for posterity!

E:)

[eboggs_jkvl]

FYI! I did the same to the pictures in this thread. Check the links. They are on ls2 for the pictures.

E:)

[Constrictor]

Wow...that is awesome info. This sounds exactly like the problem I've been having for the past two years. I will definitely do this this spring when the car comes outta hibernation.

Thanks a million!!! :D :thumbup:

P.S. I dont think you posted how much you paid for it. Was Cliff's estimate of $50 correct? I JUST placed an order at GMPartsDirect yesterday too, dammit! :D

[NBMWSsix]

Originally posted by Constrictor
Wow...that is awesome info. This sounds exactly like the problem I've been having for the past two years. I will definitely do this this spring when the car comes outta hibernation.

Thanks a million!!! :D :thumbup:

P.S. I dont think you posted how much you paid for it. Was Cliff's estimate of $50 correct? I JUST placed an order at GMPartsDirect yesterday too, dammit! :D

Yes. I forgot to mention price of the part. It was $46 plus tax. Came to like $50.31 or something.:D

[NBMWSsix]

Originally posted by eboggs_jkvl
I moved your Hoe to into the M&P forum. Well done. I also copied the pictures to our server for storage and the elimination of little red Xs later if the URL changes. (Mine changes weekly, mediaone, road runner, attbi, comcast whatever..)



That looks great. You are preserved for posterity!

E:)

Immortalized :woot: Yeah baby yeah!

[Cliff_J]

See, that's no fun. The first 2 times I removed the lock ring, I developed this amazing finger exercise holding the lock ring against the spring. :) And I guess Harbor freight to the rescue, it was like $40 at an auto parts store for puller & compressor tools. :(

Awesome job taking photos.

BTW, GM manual says to wait 15min after pulling airbag fuse to allow airbag module to discharge. Also cautions about putting slip-ring back in place without disturbing it's position.

Constrictor - I had posted this on the other site, must've got lost in the ramblings of bad sockets and poor grounds....its not like there's only one answer....good luck!

Cliff

[Non Sponsor Link]

hey! i have this same problem....i think i'll need to do this too!!!!!!!!

[Constrictor]

Well, I got the air bag off, the electrical connections undone, and the big nut off. I bought a lock plate puller, but obviously that is different from a steering wheel puller, so I need to wait til tomorrow to get a wheel puller.

[Constrictor]

Aaargh! This was a pain in the ASS, but I am happy to say I got it done.

I ran into a few snags, which Armando was kind enough to walk me through over the phone.

I think the 98s are a little different than his car, because I had a part he didnt seem to have. I will post pictures of it later, I am just resting now.

But Im happy to say I got it hooked up, put the battery into my car, and tried the brakes, and voila! They worked! My 1.5 year long saga has finally come to an end! WOOHOO!