Need help choosing carb!

[cham]

About 4 months ago I bought an Edelbrock Performer Series 600 cfm carb from J3GS. While driving my 69 camaro around today my engine died and wouldnt restart. I was doing 55 so I dumped the clutch in second gear and barely got it to run with full throtle. I limped home smelling fuel the whole way hoping not to become a fire ball. :2guns:


So I get home and the carb is leaking fuel out of where the manual secondaries hook up. So I am returning this to them and I can upgrade if I want to. So heres the question.

I have a 69 camaro with a crate 350 that has no real mods yet. It makes about 260 hp and 350 ft lbs. I do have headers and intake on it and plan at some point to do some more mods. This is not going to be a drag car but my target is to get between 350 and 450 hp and I would like a good reliable carb that will be good for this application. I have zero experience with carbs as I have only ever owned fuel injection in the past so I dont need a carb that requires experience in tuning a carberator.

Any suggestions?

TYIA.



:help:

[SS MPSTR]

Do you want a choke? Keep mechanical secondaries or go to vacuum advance? Holley makes some rightous carbs, and I'd recommend you call them directly.

[cham]

I think I should get an electric choke. She can be a real bear to start every weekend when it has sat for a week. Alot of people have talked about Holley as being a great carb and I am leaning towards them. I want to make sure I get the correct cfm and most hp for the $$. I am leaning towards the 750 cfm Holley but what model will make the ponies for the $$? I dont want to spend more than $400.00 unless I know I will get some serious benifit out of it.

I like mechanical secondaries but I can get vacuum if they are more efficent or make better power.

What model carb makes the most power for the money?

[67camaro327]

id go with a holley 750. You can pick them up pretty cheap also, i think right around 300.00

[SS MPSTR]

I've run a Holley 3310 750 cfm carb on my 327 with no issues at all. Pretty nice unit.

[cham]

He said unit....:lolbash:


Alright, I will be ordering up a 750 Holley.


Thanks 67camaro and SS MPSTR!

[98 SNAKE EATER]

If 400-450hp is your goal, then a 3310 will do fine:cool:

However, that's way too much carb for the current setup on your 350:\

I wouldn't go higher than a 650cfm carb until you've modded your motor to suit your goal....


BTW, hit up Ebay and checkout some of their deals:cool:


Here's an 850 I picked up for chump change:thumbup:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2445734493


And a 750 I picked up real cheap, rebuilt and sold:)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=33550&item=2447572674





Rick

[68maro]

i'd go with a road or speed demon carb much nicercarb for the same money. or just throw a dominator on it:p

[Mr. SSinister]

deffinitely do not over carb it. go with around a 650. everyone wants to say " yea, i got that 750 holly double pumper with bla bla bla.." but you have to be realistic with what you have. and if you have an auto trans, i think they recommend vacuum secondaries. edelbrock and holly both make good carbs. i like my carter, which is like the edelbrock.

[Oh5S4]

Originally posted by 68maro
i'd go with a road or speed demon carb much nicercarb for the same money. or just throw a dominator on it:p

:werd:

[68maro]

whats weird? i would put a 675 road demon or speed demon on there same performance as a holley without the tuning issues plus they look better. and you couldn't pay me to put an edelbrock or carter on anything i own.the dominator part was a joke

[SS MPSTR]

Originally posted by Mr. SSinister
deffinitely do not over carb it. go with around a 650. everyone wants to say " yea, i got that 750 holly double pumper with bla bla bla.." but you have to be realistic with what you have. and if you have an auto trans, i think they recommend vacuum secondaries. edelbrock and holly both make good carbs. i like my carter, which is like the edelbrock.

On a near stock engine, I agree with this 100%. The smallest I'd go is a 650 cfm, double pumper with vacuum secondaries. I ran the 3310 very successfully on a smaller engine, but the offset was it had a larger cam and great heads.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Originally posted by SS MPSTR
The smallest I'd go is a 650 cfm, double pumper with vacuum secondaries.



Huh:confused:


If it's a Double Pumper, then it will have Mechanical Secondaries...

Vacuum Secondary carbs (like the 3310's) only have one accelerator pump:dunno:


If he goes with a 650 (which I'd recomend with his current setup), I'd go with DP for Strip and VS for Street....


Standard jetting should be fine, but if using a VS, I'd get a spring set and possibly step up to a heavier dashpot spring....






Rick

[SS MPSTR]

Originally posted by 98 SNAKE EATER
Huh:confused:


If it's a Double Pumper, then it will have Mechanical Secondaries...

Vacuum Secondary carbs (like the 3310's) only have one accelerator pump:dunno:


If he goes with a 650 (which I'd recomend with his current setup), I'd go with DP for Strip and VS for Street....


Oops, you're correct...got numbers on the brain and a mistake in nomenclature. I agree with the strip (DP) and (VS) for street. It sounds like it is more a street car than strip though :dunno:

[cham]

I'd go with DP for Strip and VS for Street....




VS= Vacuum Secondaries :think:

So the Road\Speed demons are pretty sweet carbs eh.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Originally posted by cham

VS= Vacuum Secondaries :think:



Yup:)

[Red Alert]

Holley 670 street avenger. That would be my choice hands down.

[70Chevelle]

You def dont need a 750, id go with the 670 Street Avenger, bad ass carb and will work great for you

[21K69Cutlass]

personally i've had great performance from Edelbrock...but i've also had good luck from Rochester....just gotta know how to tune them....sounds like a minor seal problem on your Edelbrock....but i'd rather have that then put a 300.00 dollar Holley on and pop the power valves out as soon as i cough the motor when its cold...cause we all know they'll do it and one point or another..and yeah....stay around a 650

[98 SNAKE EATER]

Originally posted by 21K69Cutlass
but i'd rather have that then put a 300.00 dollar Holley on and pop the power valves out as soon as i cough the motor when its cold...cause we all know they'll do it and one point or another




All new Holley Carbs come with Power Valve Protection built in:)

And for those with older Carbs, the protection check ball is an easy 5 minute installation:cool:





Rick

[NoRiceInside]

barry grant road demon all day long

[Exotic Performance Plus]

I had a customer who had installed a 350/355hp ZZ4 crate engine in his '63 Impala. He had all kinds of problems with this engine. Tried a Holley, went to an Edelbrock, the engine would surg, cough, etc. he took the heads back off, had them redone, double checked cam timing, etc. He even tried a different intake manifold, and also a different distributor. He mentioned the car had a lot of vacuum, he tried different power valves, nothing worked. I convinced him to try a 650 Holley double pumper, I believe the number is a 0-4777, but I might be wrong. I had seen this type of problem before and the double pumper took care of it. This guy called me the next day and said the double pump took care of all his problems, and he was so happy with the way the car was running, him and his wife were going on a vacation in it. :)

[cham]

After some time I have made my order. I bought a new not reman Holley Street Avenger 670 with v\s and electric choke.

Only cost about $400.00 :eek:

[Bird of Fire]

You guys can dog edel/carter carbs all you want, but I use them without a hitch. I can rebuild em in my sleep, easy as all piss to tune, and the secondaries never flow more air then what your engine demands. Those that think an engine doesn't run right because a certain brand of carb is sitting on top of the intake is blind. The engine doesn't run right because the carburetor isn't tuned worth a damn. If he spent 20 dollars on the SA Designs book for carter AFB carbs, and did 20 minutes worth of reading, and move around some rods/jets he would've figured it out on his own. There is no "miracle" carb as far as I'm concerned, only a/f ratios and tuning.

Yes you will get more horsepower out of a holley/BG/what have you......but for me the ease of tuning I'll get a carter every day of the week....until I start going faster anyways that is ;)

[NoRiceInside]

I can tune a 4150/60 pretty quick, hell i can even get a 4500 to idle all day long, but i could never get teh dead spot out of when the secs. kicked in on a Edelbrock no matter how many rody springy things i threw at it
Holley are getting better but not there yet
Barry Grant got his stuff together( cant drive a pro stock car to save his life) i can't wait to get ahold of the new baseplate so i can stop drilling holes in the butterflys

[406 'velle]

650 holley.

[Bird of Fire]

Originally posted by NoRiceInside
I can tune a 4150/60 pretty quick, hell i can even get a 4500 to idle all day long, but i could never get teh dead spot out of when the secs. kicked in on a Edelbrock no matter how many rody springy things i threw at it


Accelerator pump shot I'm fairly sure. Adjust the throw of the arm on the accelerator pump (AFB) so that it tosses in fuel faster (same amount of fuel though) than it would on a hole#1 setting. Holes #2 or 3 on the pump arm make it spit it out more fuel. I was playing with the primary springs all day long until I realized that's what my problem is. The SA book for carters rule. Once it warms up, no flat spots, no backfires, belches, or hesitations. :cool:

[NoRiceInside]

it was always fat(i love A/F sensors) so i didn't think to throw more at it, , dosen't matter now cause i put it on my moms vette, so now my dads took over tuning dudies:p and he don't what hes doing anyway

[Bird of Fire]

Originally posted by NoRiceInside
it was always fat(i love A/F sensors) so i didn't think to throw more at it, , dosen't matter now cause i put it on my moms vette, so now my dads took over tuning dudies:p and he don't what hes doing anyway

:werd:
Hell fucking yes. Tuning a carb with a vaccuum gauge is a PITA. Ever since I got my autometer a/f ratio gauge it makes it so simple and easy to get the quirks out through the RPM range. Although watching the little night rider LED's bounce back is kinda tough when yer going WOT. Helps to have a passenger take notes. But it's safer insurance to be a wee bit fat say 13.5 compared to the perfect 14.7 ratio IMO. Espicially when huffing or spraying.

[NoRiceInside]

thats old school, my bud lets me use a header with the taps and one o2 with teh control box and i move it to check at least 4 clys. thats when i really start fucking around with big time adjestments I'm just waiting to break the sensor the little SOB is 750$

[Bird of Fire]

Eh ...works for me. EGT probes on each header tube are where it's at, but for a 13 second car, I don't need anything more than what I got. And hell yes o2 sensors are freaking expensive. F those lil buggers. :rant:

[NoRiceInside]

I've found that a EGT dosen't act fast enough, like a o2 to find lite/fat cly, there more for finding a bad valve or spring and stuff like that, but they will get you in teh ball park A/F wise so you don't burn pistions and such. I could go and on with this stuff I've spent many long days at the race track with a pro stock team sucking all this info in over the last few years.

[Bird of Fire]

OOooh which team? I'm a big P/S fan and it looks like an exciting season this year. Even though Greg Anderson might just sweep the whole damned season. :( And Alderman or Pawuk didn't even qualify last weekend. Big let down for me in PS last weekend.

[NoRiceInside]

I started the year with Steve Johns, they let me go after Arz. tehn i whent back with Smith working mostly on the PRO MOD but still helped on the Dart Cly. Heads car alittle. thats been it so far this year

[JCS30TH]

Carb? I guess. 650 Double pumper:D