camaro 2007?

[maddz28]

one of the guys who posted in the ls2 heads pic link said theyre coming back in 07. is this true?:confused:

[Constrictor]

Its just speculation. Even if it were true, there wouldnt be an official announcement until late 2005/early 2006.

[ChkPtCharlie]

I'm hopefull though ;)

[$ickZ06]

i hope so too

[LS1 2001 Z28]

I am hopefull yet in a way want them to wait a little longer so that my car is more a novelty. B

[03ToRcHrEdVeTtE]

i want the trans am back!!

[mpmWS6]

From what I heard at a dealership the whole 35th anniversary of the Camaro and the collectors edition of the Transam was a marketing scheme. GM wanted everyone to buy the remaining ones on the dealerships lots and then in 5 years (2007) they would bring them back. It is just like what Ford with the Thunderbird. They did away with the Thunderbird back in the 90's and then brought them back out way overpriced.

IMO it is smart of GM to do because there are no more left on the dealer lots, they cleared them out pretty fast. So that means they didnt have to lower the prices on the vehicles because of overstock in anticipation of a new year model coming in. And they were able to add a couple of thousand of dollars more onto the original price of the SS / WS6 anniversary/collectors editions.

[Hash Brown]

Im almost 100% sure the Trans Am/Firebird will NEVER return. Firebirds/ T/A's got the "Last of the Breed" badges as where the Camaro did not.

I think they will bring back the Camaro, just not the Firebird/T/A

[Cloud]

aww that sucks :( I liked firebirds/TAs better :(

[RamAirJon]

Originally posted by Trevor_00Ws6
Im almost 100% sure the Trans Am/Firebird will NEVER return. Firebirds/ T/A's got the "Last of the Breed" badges as where the Camaro did not.

I think they will bring back the Camaro, just not the Firebird/T/A

The LOB badges were done by an aftermarket Co., not GM.

[kickinthehouse]

i want my camaro!

[Pillamyd]

who cares about the camaro? :p i just want the t/a back ;)

[White97z28]

From what I have read "If" a Camaro is to return it will be in 2007 after the contract with the CAW is up...:cool:

[OctaneZ28]

AFAIK, the CAW contract ends sometime in 2005.

And who's to say they're not already working on it? They might just not be able to call it Camaro right now.

I know, I know, I'm optimistic, hehe.

BTW... 1st post on LS2.com! :D
Much gooder than "that other site"... I'm actually gonna come to this one!

[White97z28]

Yes sometime near the end of '05 or the begining of '06....If it is to be introduced for '07 you better hope they are working on it right now, nobody can say anything at all about it until the contract is up though....

[stevews602]

Im almost 100% sure the Trans Am/Firebird will NEVER return. Firebirds/ T/A's got the "Last of the Breed" badges as where the Camaro did not.

From the Pontiac site:

Bold, beautiful, passionate, rebellious. Few cars have defined our lives and times like the great Pontiac Firebird. From the first models, to the awesome Trans Am, to the magnificent madness of the Super Duty 455. There's a story in each and every one; a piece of our past and even a glimmer of the future.

"glimmer of the future"

[tomSS99]

yay i can post again

[Smokey]

I don't know I love the TA's (WS6) but what will the next one look like IF it were to return? I don't think they can improve on the styling of the 98 - 02 models. (even if they did use a boat load of cladding). But then again you never know what they will pull out of the hat if they did bring back the Firebird line up. I guess if it comes with an LS2 6.0 L or even better the 7.0L 427. :D I would buy that in a heartbeat.

[LS1_Disciple]

Originally posted by mpmWS6
From what I heard at a dealership...

Stop right there. Anything that follows is at the very least suspect, and most likely wrong.

Originally posted by mpmWS6
IMO it is smart of GM to do because there are no more left on the dealer lots, they cleared them out pretty fast.

I also think I'd have to disagree with this one. There were brand new 2002s still sitting on dealer lots in summer 03. Even Tom Henry had a hard time getting rid of all his "special edition" SSs.

For anyone that's interested, the best source of information I've found seems to be the 5th gen/Future Vehicles forum on CZ28.com.

[TARZAN]

SO, if they do, is is likely that they'll be sporting the LS2 motor or what?

-Will

[BowlingSS]

Originally posted by TARZAN
SO, if they do, is is likely that they'll be sporting the LS2 motor or what?

-Will

It should have an LS2.. I can not wait. I will have mine paid off by then.
BowlingSS
:cool:

[Chief Pontiac]

I wish it were true but I dont think either will be coming back.They want everybody to buy Caddys and SUVs.:(

[MT Wallet]

I'm pretty sure they'll be back...as long as it can make money for GM

everything goes in cycles, in a few years who knows, suvs may be out and two door sportscars may be the rage again...

now trucks/suvs rule...but there was a time when they were barely a blip on the radar.

now our cars are barely a blip, but will they be forever?

:drive:

[Big Als Z28]

Yeah, they are coming back.
Chassis is ready, drivetrain is there, and there are tons of talk about a small coupe from Chevy coming in 07. The Zeta chassis is a RWD chassis that will be under everything from a 20k V6 camaro to a 45k Buick. The chassis can be adapated for AWD also, so this will increase the size and depth of GM's line up of cars greatly from small coupes like the Camaro to AWD versoins of a large sedan. No, the Camaro will not be AWD.

[Big Als Z28]

Here is some inside news from GMInsidenews.com.

2007-The Camaro will be There!
By: Branden Farthing
Compiled with the Help of: Zane Merva Editor-GM-Trucks.com


Work on a new 5th generation Camaro, though GM will tell you different, began about two years ago in almost a skunkworks fashion. It was a difficult task for GM to perform in secret especially during the acrimonious final year of the fourth generation Camaro. GM constantly referring to the Camaro being on “Hiatus” is a sure sign that they were not fully giving up on the Camaro. Initial work was largely marketing studies, seeing what potential Camaro buyer must have, would like to have, and defiantly don’t want. This kind of research is done before engineering and design on a new car program. Camaro is the 3rd most recognized name in GM’s portfolio, and it has understandably become notion at GM that it had to come back. The current team working on the new Camaro is pushing to build a car that will be appealing not only when it’s released, but 5-7 years later (as far out as 2015!). That means for the most part that retro is out, which is good for Bob Lutz, who dislikes such design to begin with. GM does not want another T-bird or new Beetle, as their sales do not hold up well over time. Initially in the development process, Cadillac’s Sigma platform was considered the leading architecture for which to base the new Camaro. Several issues however came up with this choice, the first one of which being the cost of the Cadillac platform which was not designed with Chevrolet prices in mind. Secondly, the Sigma platform has a very high cowl (commonly called firewall) height that was made as a concession for the Cadillac SRX Crossover. This however is not ideal for a low slung sports coupe and would be very expensive to impossible to correct. This realization occurred at about the same point GM discovered Holden. In importing the GTO, GM realized that Holden had expertise and efficiency in designing affordable rear wheel drive cars that they could only wish to have. When they signed a 3-year agreement with Holden to build the GTO, they also had an eye on the future, and an American made GTO. It seems Holden was already developing a successor to the V-chassis that the Monaro, GTO, and Commodore are all built on dubbed VE. The VE chassis (as Holden calls it) is sort of a hybrid Sigma/V-car design with most of the Sigma’s structure mated to V-Car suspension elements. This new design is being engineered to be fully compliant with US laws and will be built in one or two US factories beginning 2005-2006. It is Holden’s manufacturing system which allows for several cars to be built in one factory that is the cornerstone to GM’s plans. Currently they build 20 variants of the V-car in one factory down under. This setup GM hopes in the US will allow for a Buick to build say a $45,000 Lexus fighting sedan on the same line a $20,000 V6 Chevy Camaro. The US version of the VE chassis is currently being called Sigma-Lite or Sigma-Mass among those in the know, however GM has yet to give it an official name. The chassis debuted just this week as the Opel Insignia concept, proving how far it is along in development. The VE will also underpin the next GTO which will be made in the US in 2007. This new VE-based GTO is said to be lower, wider, and more aggressive than the current V-car based version according to those who have seen it. Expect the new GTO to be more identifiable as a GTO, while being a fully modern (non-retro) design. I believe the Insignia concept shows the low slung rounded look that will be the signature of this platform.

Now what does all this mean for the Camaro? Well since it was decided that the GTO would be redesigned and built stateside, Chevy has been in the game developing a coupe for themselves as a counterpart. Common notion was that this car would be a Chevelle, since it has historically been the GTO’s platform sibling. This speculation was recently fired by the fact that Chevy recently trademarked the Chevelle name again. In fact, for a few months there were questions in GM concerning what the new Chevy coupe would be called as some wanted it to be a Monte Carlo, some a Chevelle, and the majority wanted a Camaro. GMI has learned that the Chevelle rumors really never had any muscle behind them, especially after GM was roasted alive by GTO enthusiasts over the 2004 car, Chevrolet has become worried about getting the same reception over a reborn Chevelle. Cementing the name of the new Chevrolet coupe was ironically the Mustang concept at the 2004 NAIAS. Upon first site it gave Bob Lutz a case of the “I wants”, and pretty much cemented that any coupe that comes from Chevrolet will be have to first be a Camaro.

Its also noteworthy that we’ve learned that the new Camaro will not be the same size as the GTO, as the highly flexible chassis allows for different proportions among car models. Think of it as a GTO on a diet with some dimensional excesses removed. Our sources assure us that no one will mistake a Camaro for a GTO both in size or appearance. This new 5th Gen Camaro is currently on a timeline for a 2007 model year introduction, provided that no unexpected obstacles fall in it’s path. GM’s maze of new model concept approvals is staggering, and the new car does not have the final stamp quite yet. However it should be noted that at this point neither does the 2007 GTO, and that this is normal in the approval process for vehicles this far out. This final approval by GM’s Product Planning Board does not occur until the car is within about two years of going into production. In short, if the 2007 GTO becomes reality (which we all know will happen), then a 2007 Camaro almost certainly will to.

GM was quite proud of the fact that the Camaro was the fastest pony car during it’s final years and is willing to grow to great lengths to ensure it picks up where it left off. GM can match the Ford Mustang step for step horsepower wise with it’s superior powertrain unit. GM’s engines are cheaper and make more HP/Dollar than their respective Ford units despite the false generally held notion they are low tech. Power will likely come in three flavors, base V6, medium V8, and high end V8. The base V6 will likely be a high-value 3.5L (200HP) or 3.9L (230HP) engine. Expect GM to match the Mustang in V6 performance, but not exceed it. It is important that GM save costs on the V6 Camaro as it will likely be among the cheapest cars built on the whole Sigma-Lite platform. Though V6 buyers care about performance, cost and value seem to take more precedence in this segment. As much as people would like a 3.6L 255 HP high feature V6, it’s not likely due to its much increased cost. They do however, plan to offer a bolt on version of the supercharger used on the 285HP 3.5L that will show up in the 2005 Pontiac G6 to the general public through dealers. Contrary to some rumors, a 4-cylnder is not in the plans as it does not fit the image Chevrolet wants for the new Camaro. For a mid-level V8 expect either a 320 HP 5.3L or a 340HP detuned version of the Corvette’s 6.0L LS2 base engine.The 5.3L is the less likely of the above mentioned engines to get the nod because we are unaware of any plans to certify it for car use, a road the 6.0L is well down. For all intents the 5.7L is dead as the new Corvette will use a 6.0L engine in it’s place. This mid-model is likely to car the Z28 designation which will upset some Z28 enthusiasts, but follows the line with the Camaro’s recent history The top level V8 likely to again be called SS will also most likely be the 6.0L LS2 directly from the base Corvette. This engine making probably 10-20 HP less than in Corvette trim will make in the area of 390HP. The decision to use the SS designation follows GM recent trend of using the designation of the top performing car for each model. The car will also probably have some kind of affiliation with GM Performance Division. It is well known that Holden is designing it’s new VE cars to use 6 speed automatic transmissions, making them an obvious choice for the SS 5th Gen Camaro. The 6-speed automatic is actually simpler and cheaper to manufacture than a 5 speed design. There are rumors that team Corvette badly wants a paddle-shift setup to come from this design, but is exploring all options. This new transmission will be made at GM’s Willow Run plant that currently makes the 4L80-E and 4T80E transmissions. Four or Five Speed Autos will be used in lesser models. There will also be a 6-speed manual offered for those who wish to shift on their own.
On the outside the new Camaro will be lower and more seductive than the current GTO. It will also feature styling elements from the SS Concept of this year. People familiar with the new car claim it has a chrome bar concurrent of newer Chevrolets, however that element is very much in limbo. Naturally, the interior will be fully modern keeping in line with the GM’s recent achievements. Interiors have been a hot topic on the auto scene the last few years, and GM understands that the Camaro needs to hit a homerun to succeed.
more on next post..

[Big Als Z28]

Ergonomics will be inherently better that the 4th Gen cars simply due to the better design of the new chassis. Basic features debuting on cars such as the 2004 Malibu are sure to be considered for the new car, such as remote start, Displacement on Demand, and XM and MP3 Capable radios. It is actually cost effective for GM to include such features in the new car because they were already included in the overall architecture design which will be the structure for more expensive cars. The new car will also include ABS and a revised traction control system that will make the Camaro an all weather car. In reality anything is possible, because Sigma –Lite will be so widely used, pretty much all of GM’s parts bin of options will be engineered to work with it, making the cost to include them in a Camaro negligible, What all of this means is that the Camaro will receive levels of options and refinements that was never imaginable, because it rides on a platform designed to for cars that cost much more. Things such as roll up windows and manual locks will not even be considered because it is cheaper to just include the power options than do the engineering to include manual options. Higher end versions may include features such as On-Star that are highly profitable and compact enough to not hurt performance. If GM thinks that people will pay for it, GM will likely include it. This is great for buyers of the top level Camaro will get much more for their money than they did with the 4th Generation. Speaking of price, expect GM to price the Camaro similar to the 4th Generation Camaro, slightly more than a Mustang of comparable price.


If Ford decided to chase the Corvette with a 500HP Cobra, don’t expect a Camaro to chase it. GM feels that the Corvette will do a good enough job of disposing with the challenge. The price spread could likely run from about $20,000 to $37,000+ (In 2007 dollars) for a 400 HP fully-loaded Camaro. Considering in 2002 a base V6 Camaro started at $19,000, this is not much of a price increase. GM thinks it can sell a 110,000 units a year at this pricing through tapping such markets as past buyers, well off twenty and thirty something males, buyers put off by the retro Mustang, and in general anyone looking for amazing performance at a Chevrolet price. GM has committed itself to making the Camaro not only faster and better than the Mustang, but quite possibly on of the best performers in it’s price range.

Though this article is a representation of the current state of the new Camaro to the best of our knowledge, please remember the car is three years from hitting showrroms and some details may change. When the wraps come off the 2007 Camaro it will bring an end to what has been a classic struggle within GM to keep one of it’s classic nameplates viable in an ever changing market. Though there have been many people pushing for this new car within GM at various levels for the last 7 years, few on the outside will ever understand the hard work and struggle that went into bringing a new car to light. However, Rest assured however, the new car is one that will be worthy of the Camaro name, and more importantly, one that people will buy!

[MapleRed]

From what I've been hearing, it looks like the RWD coupe from Chevy has been delayed a model year or two. So, 2008/2009 model year is the target, now.

[DP02SS]

If what some have posted is true, nothing like shear dishonesty by GM to get us all to buy them up. Its the corporate america philosophy theses days so it doesnt suprise me. I got a cool fairly fast car outta the deal even if the interior blows monkey nuts. D

[bad2000ss]

I would be nice if gm would actually give the SS model a better motor this time around and not just "say" it has 15 more horsepower. 3000lbs or less, 400hp, rear wheel drive, and don't stick the motor under the cowl. If gm can do that, perhaps there will be two camaros in my garage in 2007.

[Big Als Z28]

Originally posted by bad2000ss
I would be nice if gm would actually give the SS model a better motor this time around and not just "say" it has 15 more horsepower. 3000lbs or less, 400hp, rear wheel drive, and don't stick the motor under the cowl. If gm can do that, perhaps there will be two camaros in my garage in 2007.

under 3k lbs? Its a Camaro, not a miata.

Chances are it will be 3300-3500lbs, and about 380hp on a "detuned" LS2, unless the LS2 gets a revised and true hp raiting of 425... then we wont see a 400hp model. With GM and its new performance divisions, the SS model will have a higher hp motor then the Z28. I figure the Vette will pick up another 10 hp or so, and the Camaro SS will be 390hp, while the Z28 will be at 375. The SS will get bigger brakes, betters suspension, appareance package too.

[Gary]

i got this from HTown racing.com


The true story behind the Camaro name, Ste. Therese, the CAW & the Quebec Goverment
I wanted to post a series of items that will explain why GM is not talking about the next Camaro, and why there is a gag order. What spurned me to do this is that there are still people who don't get the situation, although it's been spelled out here many times.

Camaro was made by the Canadian Auto Workers Union, Local 1163 in Ste Therese Quebec (CAW inquires: tel: (416) 495-6548/3771 fax: (416) 495-6552).


PART 1

WHAT TAX BREAKS DID GM GET FOR THE STE. THERESE PLANT?



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the GM plant at Ste Thérèse was threatened with closing, the government of Quebec and the government of Canada made a strategic investment in its future and saved the thousands of jobs that were at stake.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.ontla.on.ca/hansard/hous...sion2/l091a.htm


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Ste-Thérese plant is the only auto assembly plant in Quebec. The Quebec government granted GM a $220-million interest free loan to keep the plant open in 1987. The car maker has also benefited from tax breaks estimated at more than $100 million.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.themilitant.com/1996/6039/6039_4.html


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retooled to build Camaros and Firebirds in 1987, thanks to an interest-free, 30-year government loan of $200 million,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.wsws.org/workers/1998/july1998/...8/caw-j24.shtml



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GM will effectively be telling Quebeckers, 'We're slamming the door,' and this after the hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money that were heartily accepted by the company," he said...
...GM received $220-million in interest-free loans from Ottawa and Quebec in 1987 to keep the plant, just north of Montreal, open. Those loans -- $110-million from each government -- are due in 2017.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.workopolis.com/servlet/C.../20020126/RCAWW

IS THERE SOME TYPE OF AGREEMENT REGARDING THE STE THERESE PLANT AND THE LOCAL UNION?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are committed to ensuring as smooth a transition as possible for our people. Almost all of the 1100 hourly employees currently on-roll and the 300 hourly employees currently on lay-off at Ste. Thérèse are now eligible for early retirement or will become eligible within the next few years(2005). The GM of Canada benefit packages for hourly and salary employees are extensive, with income continuation for up to 3 years (2005) for affected employees...
...In connection with the closure of the Ste. Thérèse plant, General Motors Corp. will incur a one-time special charge of U.S. $300 million pretax (US$195 after tax)...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://email.gmcanada.com/corpdb/ca...7f?OpenDocument


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over 90 per cent of the about 1,500 employees involved will be eligible to retire when the plant closes next year or within the next few years (2005), she added...
Mr. Hargrove said the Quebec and federal governments offered aid worth more than $300-million that would have given the auto maker virtually a free plant.

GM has not repaid interest-free loans of $220-million that Ottawa and Quebec provided in 1987. Those loans -- $110-million from each government -- are due in 2017 and won the plant the mandate to produce the Firebird and Camaro...

Heidi Bonnell, a spokeswoman for Industry Minister Brian Tobin, defended the loan as "money well spent, because it will have helped keep the Ste-Thérèse plant open for an extra 15 years -- which assured that 90 per cent of the workers will be eligible for a company pension by the . . . shutdown date."

Quebec Finance Minister Pauline Marois said GM has assured her that it will repay the loan.

"General Motors deserves a medal for keeping that plant open as long as they did," said Dennis DesRosiers, who heads DesRosiers Automotive Consultants Inc., in Richmond Hill, Ont.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.globeadvisor.com/servlet...GMGM#end%20anim


Part 2

IS THERE SOMETHING GM IS DOING TO SMOOTH THINGS OVER WITH THE CAW AND THE PROVINANCE OF QUEBEC OVER THE STE. THERESE PLANT CLOSING?



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GM Canada has agreed to spend $10-million at Quebec universities and research institutions over the next five years to study lightweight materials. It has also set a target of allocating $400-million in new contracts over that same time to Quebec parts makers. It now buys about $800-million worth of materials annually from Quebec suppliers.

"I find it clearly in favour of General Motors," one industry observer said of the deal.

Officials said the deal could create as many as 1,000 jobs.

The auto maker eliminated about 1,400 jobs when it closed its Ste-Thérèse, Que., muscle car assembly plant last August.

GM Canada has met the terms of the loans and will continue to do so, said spokesman Richard James. One of the terms is that they are not repayable until 2017.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...GEEM/TPBusiness


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
General Motors of Canada on Friday said it had signed an agreement with the Quebec government aimed at increasing to $C1.2 billion ($US811 million) from $C800 million the supply contracts it gives in Quebec, Reuters reported. Reuters said that GM's decision follows months of negotiations with public officials after the closure last year of the company's Camaro and Firebird plant in Ste-Therese, the only car plant that was left in the province.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.just-auto.com/news_detai...0393&nf=yes


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GM, for example, closed its assembly plant in Ste. Therese, Quebec, in August, but it has committed to a new third shift at one of its assembly plants in Oshawa, Ontario. It also has committed to a new paint shop there and new machining and powertrain work at its plant in St. Catharines, Ontario. Those moves were enough so that the union accepted a new contract with GM instead of walking out, despite its disappointment that it got nothing new for Ste. Therese.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.auto.com/industry/caw24_20020924.htm


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
General Motors agreed to invest about $800 million Canadian, or about $509 million U.S. at current exchange rates, to increase employment in Oshawa and at its St. Catharines, Ontario, powertrain plants. The new investment partly makes up for the automaker's decision to close its Ste. Therese, Quebec, assembly plant.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.local2209.org/default115.asp


quote:

[Gary]

part 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...when the automaker shut down production at its 1,400-worker assembly plant in Ste-Therese, Quebec. Union job losses, however, were partially mitigated by GM's adding 1,000 workers for a third shift at one of its two Oshawa plants.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.conway.com/ssinsider/pwatch/pw021014.htm


WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE STE. THERESE PLANT??


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The CAW was hoping to delay the demolition by three years (2005) to keep the plant standing through the length of the union's next national labour agreement with GM (2005), which will be negotiated this summer...
...The Ste-Therese workers will also be eligible for any new retirement incentives that the CAW negotiates in the next contract, he said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.canoe.ca/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.G....GM-Quebec.html


__________________
Part 3

SO IS THERE OR ISN'T THERE AN EXCLUSIVE AGREEMENT TO MAKE CAMAROS & FIREBIRDS AT THE STE. THERESE PLANT?

(from GM's own media website)


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GM of Canada’s Ste. Thérèse, Quebec plant has the exclusive General Motors mandate to assemble Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebirds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://media.gmcanada.com/division/...tiations_en.htm

Other things worth noting:
* Bob Lutz tells the media that there is a Camaro in the works and retracts it within days.

*Kurt Ritter (Chevy's former general manager) in a speech mentions a future Camaro, then backtracks.

*GM Performance group chief Mark Reuss stated that a priority of General Motors is to "find a chassis sutible for the next Camaro", then says he was misquoted, and denies a Camaro is in the works.

* Jon Moss hinted at a new Camaro "someday", as did Ron Zarella & GM's former product boss.

*There was an actual memo sent out (by GM's Legal departmet!)shortly after the F-body ended production that forbids anyone from even mentioning Camaro or Firebird to the public or press, under threat of termination.

This pretty much clearly defines GM's situation:

1. GM had a battle royal with both the CAW & the Quebec government trying to close down Ste Therese.

2. GM got a $200,000,000 INTREST FREE loan from Quebec (not due till 2017!! )& $100,000,000 in tax breaks in 1987 to produce the 4th gen Camaro there.

3. In that same agreement (done in 1987 NOT 1997) Ste. Therese won an exclusive agreement from GM to produce Camaros & Firebirds.... yes, and exclusive agreement!

4. By the mid to late 90s the Ste Threse plant was an albatross around GMs neck. Yet they did keep the plant going to most people in the know, long past it's usefulness.

5. GM has till 2005 to replace the jobs lost at Ste Therese with expanded jobs at other plants or has to pay a pension to anyone left who hasn't been rehired.

6. If GM's contract is with the Ste Therese plant. As long as the plant is standing or unsold, GM is comitted to making the F-body at that plant!

8. As long as GM has an outstanding balence on it's NO INTREST LOAN from Quebec, it can not make anything called Camaro or Firebird.

9. GM is making investments & grants to Quebec in order to repay it's loans.

10. By indicating they are contemplating a new Camaro by mentioning it, General Motors would still be liable for breaking their agreements before it could be demonstrated that they have lived up to all terms of that contract.

General Motors would also be demonstrating bad faith if they made an announcement or indicated they were OFFICIALLY moving ahead with a new Camaro before all loans were paid, all CAW workers layed off were rehired (GM HAS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS NO LATER THAN 2005), and the Ste Therese plant was either sold or leveled!

This is pretty much what RP meant by one day we'll understand.

This information has been bouncing around from a number of people inside GM, but no one could publically be quoted. Using numberous press and media sources & stringing them together, this is the story without compromising anybody.

Bottom line, DO NOT expect any use of the Camaro or Firebird name till these things are resolved. 2005 is the year, or at the very least, once the [b]next[]/b] talks with the CAW produce a contract.

Game over. Mystery solved.

[Big Als Z28]

Hey gary...this was posted on CZ28, and GM had a hissy fit! They told the admins of the site to take it town... thats why Im going to save it and print it out now!

[Johnny_Pappis]

there is talk of “Mr. Chevrolet” Dick Harrell limeted editon camaro being worked out with gm RIGHT now so the camaro is deffinatly makinking a cimeback THANK GOD and as for u t/a owers who bash camaro i find them camaros and t/a's siblings not rivals i am a big time camaro fan and will mis the t/a very much it was yet another example of fine amrican craftsmanship:( R.I.P Trans AM you are deeply missed by all fbody enthisiests

[Big Als Z28]

The Dick Harrel Camaros will probably be any of the still lingering 02 models. Did you know that Chevy sold 108 camaros last month?

[YELLERR]

Gary
Thank you for them post. That explaind it real well for me.
Johnny_Pappis
Camaro comes back, that's great. I will miss the T/A's too. When I bought my T/A, I had looked at a 35 Camaro too. At the time, I got a better deal with the Collector. I'm looking forward to see the new camaro.

[bzettler83]

how did GM sell 108 camaros last month. when were they produced and where have they been all this time. are they still selling TA's ? where do you all get this info....

[DrEvyl]

Originally posted by Trevor_00Ws6
Im almost 100% sure the Trans Am/Firebird will NEVER return. Firebirds/ T/A's got the "Last of the Breed" badges as where the Camaro did not.

I think they will bring back the Camaro, just not the Firebird/T/A

That's not the impression I got from listening to Scott Settlemire over the weekend at FBG8 in Atlanta. I got the distinct impression from his comments that if it was to come back, it would be both cars, not just one.

To me it just wouldn't be right to have a Camaro without a Firebird.

[DrEvyl]

Originally posted by Big Als Z28
The Dick Harrel Camaros will probably be any of the still lingering 02 models.

That's exactly what the Harrell car is..
http://pics.evyl.org/FBG8/Harrell_a.jpg

[Big Als Z28]

Originally posted by bzettler83
how did GM sell 108 camaros last month. when were they produced and where have they been all this time. are they still selling TA's ? where do you all get this info....

from GM. Ill post the link in a bit.

[OpnRoofZ28]

I'm sorry to say, but I don't see too good of a future for the "camaro." The name is dead along with the car. GM general manager has stated in press conference that it will return, just not under the "camaro" name. It'll probly come back as what the camaro was supposed to be called first. It was originally supposed to be the panther and then some odd number. Camaro meaning heavenly is at an end. I hate to say it, I'm a camaro guy through and through with both of mine, but the 2007 camaro will be a tragedy.

[Fbodfather]

There ARE a few Camaros and Firebirds in dealer inventory...but most are being kept as part of the dealers' personal collections.

No.....the Anniversary Camaro and Commemorative Edition Firebird were not marketing ideas to sell out the last year of production.

We felt very strongly that there should be a celebration for 35 years of what I like to call "Performance - American Style" So, we developed these cars for the enthusiast.....the guy or girl who wanted one of the last 4th gen Fcars......

[Stone4779]

I have my down payment ready for a 5th gen right now :)

No less than an LS2 with a HP rating the same as the Vette (so maybe people can start realising HP #s arent the only variable)

Give it two doors only and a six speed.(of course)

Make it recognizable as a Camaro and attractive to females(as potential buyers...Mustangs have attracted them for too long)

Creature comforts an a class A interior.

You build it and I will buy it.

No doubt about it. I would even pay the $500 fee to preorder it.

I know of at least 5 people who I see every day who feel the same way.

I dont mind waiting, either. Its smart for them to wait in many ways....one of the bonuses is that they get to scope out the competition first...let the 05 Mustang come out, and then see how it performs and how people are responding to the design, and modify their plans to take that information into consideration.

They get to check out what the Mustangs going to do, and probably the Cobra, and if they outperform what they have in the works right now...they can always change it up to make it better before actually putting it into productions. Theres no '04 or '05 to worry about so they can focus on the future, and dont have to rush and slap it together, to get them on the lots in time.

They have till 2006-2007 to perfect it...which to me it seems will only just make it that much better. A lot of new technology could come up between now and then and like I said, will only make the wait more worth it.

I'll have my checkbook and Im ready to sign the dotted line and make a commitment....are you GM?