mtx vs JL audio vs Kicker

[zone]

http://www.mtx.com/smoked/

link to comparison of jl, kicker and mtx

[DJSexay]

makes for great marketing, but we really don't get the full picture.

This test is comparing one thing only, thermal power handling.

What are the impedances of the voice coils ? how is it wired ? 4 ohm, 2 ohm ? are all three subs the same ? Yes, it does matter.

I'm not familiar with the Kicker or the MTX, but I know the W7 is dual 6 ohm, meaning it can be wired as 3 ohms, or 6. In order to be fair, the others will need to be wired the same way.

Voltage is only part of the equation, we need to know resistance (or impedance) and from there, we figure out current.

The W7 gave out at 106 volts, right ? Let's assume they had it hooked up at 3 ohms. V=IR tells us that it was drawing 35 watts of current before going out. Power = VI, so that gives us 3,720 watts !! :eek:

now, let's just say MTX tried to get fancy (this was their add by the way !) and threw an 8 ohm sub in the mix. They hit, what, 145 I believe ? plug the numbers, that's 2,628 watts. Hmmmm

One would hope that they used the same voice coil setup for all 3 subs to make it a fair test.

Bottom line, these are impressive numbers for all 3 subs as far as thermal power handling goes. All 3 are well built, tough subs. But as far as which one is louder ? Thermal power handling will not tell you that. It's only 1 part of many, many variables.

And no, I'm not jus defending the JL and Kicker, as my sub of choice is not even on that list.

Don't believe everything you see on the internet :)

-mike

[Mr. Anderson]

I would go with JL subs over MTX or Kicker any day of the week. For me, not a lot can compete with a couple of Brahma Mk2's:D
Or in my car, a pair of Alpine Type R's :slash:

[Get Shorty]

Informative post, DJ... :D

[zone]

first jl w7's are not dual 6 but are single 3 and the mtx is single 4
which means the jl went at (105v/3ohm=35a) ( 35a * 105v=3675 watts) at 3675 watts the mtx is single 4 ohm wich means it handled (145v/4ohm=36.25a) (36.25a * 145v= 5256.25w) 5256watts and was still going, also this was not just a thermal test but also a test of suspension it just happened that the jl and kicker subs went thermal before their suspensions gave out.

am i saying the jl and kicker subs are not good subs, no i am not. what i will say is the mtx subs are imo better and with out a doubt a better value.

here is a head to head comparison of the w7 vs the 9500

http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/headtohead/w7.cfm

[DJSexay]

ahh yes, the W7 is single 3 ohm, I forgot. My GTi is dual 6.

If the MTX is indeed a 4ohm sub, then yes, the numbers do show that sub handling more power. I was just trying to make a point that unless you know all of the test conditions, it's hard to see the winner.

as for the comparison, yes, the MTX looks like a good sub, but you cannot go off of specs to see what is a better one. As far as better value, well, that's an opinion of the one spending the money. If the MTX is indeed all that, then I agree it could be money better spent.

Personally, I've never messed with MTX equipment. It's not that I think they are inferior, I've just never had the opportunity to play with their gear. I always try to refrain from judging equipment I have not personally heard or installed.

However, I will say the JL W7 is probably the 2nd best sub I've ever experienced as far as SQ and output goes.


mike

[chrismcdaniel]

Originally posted by Bellerophon
I would go with JL subs over MTX or Kicker any day of the week. For me, not a lot can compete with a couple of Brahma Mk2's:D
Or in my car, a pair of Alpine Type R's :slash:

dude there realy is no comparison, i have worked with car stereo systems for 17 years now, i have followed what hot and whats not hibitualy. And i can tell you the MTX 9500 is the badest comp sub out right now.

the 9500 is un parelleled as we speek, but there is word of a "new" RF competition sub comming out that is supposed to be as good or better. and for those who are realy wodering about the w7 here ya go, http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/headtohead/w7.cfm

theres your anwer, and you can cross referenc it, but il tel yu MX is well known or heir honet in the maet. You can bet fa MTX amp says 500 wats, it s 00 watts, and mst compnies cat sm t ge that riht. i am not based towrs MX, i jut tel it like i is. who knows, next wek , i may be elling omeone else is top dawg.

[anotherws6]

wierd I always thought sound quality was important. But I suppose everyone should buy the highest Powered sub they can, so all of those 5000 watt amps everyone is running don't blow the subs.:rolleyes:

[DJSexay]

all 3 of those subs are good subs. Which one is best ? depends on your criteria of what defines best. All I'm saying, is that while specs and tests are important, your own ear and personal preference is even more important.

I used to be a big JL fan. Actually, I still do think they make a great product. Up until now, I have always had JL subs, starting with the w0, then a w4, w6, some w3's for another car, then finally a w7. I have not been disappointed in their performance.

I used to be one of those "W7's rule" guys before I tried another sub, that quite frankly I was very scepticle about. But I was blown away by the increased lowend, more volume with the same amp, and better midbass transition, all at a cheaper price.

Everyone should be willing to atleast look and consider other brands.

mike

[$ickZ06]

hey dj, this other sub your reffering to... is it the adire brahma? I hear crazy good things about that sub.

[DJSexay]

No. Although I have head a Brahma and it did sound nice. Not much output, but that was more due to it's install.

My sub of choice is the JBL WGTi .I don't want to hijack this thread , as it was started by a sponsor of this site to promote a brand he sells.. And as a site admin myself, I understand how imprtant it is to have sponsors to help pay the bills of running a site. So if you would like to get my views of a GTi vs a W7, please post another thread, or you can email me at mike@djsexay.com

mike

[Ted J]

Originally posted by DJSexay
No. Although I have head a Brahma and it did sound nice. Not much output, but that was more due to it's install.

I take it that was mine you are referring too? :-) Yeah, free air sounds nice but during the DB portion of the compeition I was lacking that's for sure! That's what I get for only running 275 watts to it (1-600 watt class) and also running it free air.

Was this the 12W7 or 13W7? The 12W7 is single 3 ohm but the 13W7 is dual 3 ohm of I remember correctly.

[Ted J]

Originally posted by DJSexay
What are the impedances of the voice coils ? how is it wired ? 4 ohm, 2 ohm ? are all three subs the same ? Yes, it does matter.

I can't view the video at work here but was this test done in enclosures or were they done in free air?

Not only should the impedance of the voice coils be factored in but the impedance of the speaker and enclosure needs to be facted in also for that can make a big difference also.

[DJSexay]

tests were done free air, no baffle or anything. Just hook up a power source and see what happens.

I believe it was a 12W7 being compared, so single 3 ohm.

mike

[Ted J]

NM, I saw the video now and know the answer to the question I asked now.

[zone]

13w7 is dual 1.5ohm;)

[Ted J]

Originally posted by zone
13w7 is dual 1.5ohm;)

Man it shows just how long it's been since I've looked at the 12W7 and 13W7! :)

[Ted J]

Another point that should be mentioned that I've sort of already brought up is the frequency they used when testing these subs.

Lets just use the 12W7 for example. If they tested it at like 29 or 30 Hz (I'm going from memory of the impedance curve on WinISD here so please factor that in also) then the impedance of the woofer is like 37.3 or somewhere in that neighborhood. If they tested it at 50 Hz the impedance is around 4.4.

If you figure the 106.1 volts into both those loads you will get the following:

37.3 Ohms: 106.1 x 106.1 / 37.3= 302 watts
4.4 Ohms: 106.1 x 106.1 / 4.4= 2558 watts

So, as you can see, thing's aren't always what they seems! :-) Like Mike mentioned though, it doesn't mean that any one sub is better or worse of than each other. If they gave more details as to how they tested the subs then it could be more of a valid comparison but the way it was done doesn't really tell us much.

BTW = If you factor those impedances into the MTX woofer (I understand that it would be different but this is just for example purposes) then you would get 541 watts for the 37.3 one and 4583 watts for the 4.4 one. I don't know what impedance curve of the MTX woofer looks though.