JCS30TH
03-07-2004, 04:46 AM
:eek: Qualified by the following contingencies. Please read all the way through before sending letter bombs
#1. You are the type of person who likes a conservitive looking car. OR
#2 You have $5,000 to spend on it.
I have seen the car in magazines, on TV and at a car show from about 25 feet away. Tonight I ran into one at a dealer. Here are my impressions.
The dealer was closed and had some gto's on the lot. The cars were sitting under a very bright light so it was easy to get a good look at them. Here we go. Lets start inside.
I am very impressed with the quality of the interior. The layout, ergonomics and features look dead on. Derf?
The +'s.
Seats - The look to be some of the best seats I have seen in a sports coupe. The leather looks a little better than the F-body, but I am skepticle about the wear. (maybe some aussies can confir). The gto stitching is a nice touch. I like the colored guages and the colored seats. It is obvious this is not an GM car by some of the different features such as telescoping steering wheel, bright trim group and (I have heard no one mention this) rear a/c ducts. :cool: Oh yea, the appeared quality. Most gm interiors are crap.
The seat position seems better (higher) than the F-body, so I would assume it is easier to drive around town in.
The -'s. There are only 2 things I saw that I did not like. The steering wheel is butt ugly and the guages appear to be tilted upwards like a foreing car. I despise that and is on of the features I did not like about the 64. But not sitting directly in the car it may not be too bad (just one of my pet peaves, like the tach must be on the left)
The guages are not complete, but I personally would pull the blaupuknt, put in an aftermarket deck and aftermarket guages in its place. Or you could add the HSV dash pod (if avalible) and put oil pressure/volt guages in it.
Overall I would rate the interior a 8 out of 10 and would hope that GM benchmarks off of the appeared quaility,ergonomic function of it. I would be very suprised if the car had the typical GM factory installed squeeks and rattles. The car has an interior of a $40,000 car. More on that later.
Exterior.
My first observation was kind of a shock. This car is very small on the outside. It does not look much larger than a Grand Am.:confused: I don't see how this car weighs so much. Maybe they designed it to resist a collison with a Sherman Tank:eek: But for the small exterior it seems to have a roomy interior:dunno: It would seem logical to me that the car would feel smaller driving also than an F-body. Again making better for driving around town.
Hoodline. I really don't like the exposed wipers and black plastic pods:confused: I really don't understand why automakers cannot recess the wipers under the hood like they used too. My T/A and Grand Prix are the same way. Of course with the waterbased model paint they used on the wiper arms and the cheap black exposed plastic you wind up with dull faded peelig wiper arms and broken down whiteish plastic..
Syling. Very conservitive. When I first saw it on the lot I was not sure if it was a Grand Prix or GTO. I was about 60 yards away so this impression was really just based upon the outside fog lights, grill position and flat hoodline. Once I got closer it became apparent which car it was in a subtile way. I really think that on the street this is how the car will be seen coming up on you. From a distance it will look like a prix, but as it gets closer you will see otherwise.
-'s
Front Facia is terrible, but this is not a reflection so much on the gto as Pontiac is carrying this theme across its product line. The grills are way to large and have no recess. The grand prix, solstace, g6 and bonneville all have the same. I guess it is the new Pontiac look? I don't really like it at all.
Rear spoiler. Someone take the guy who designed that thing out to the woodshed please.
Wheels - I really don't like them much, but it sounds like a lot of guys are going to replace them.
Ground effects - side and rear. They don't seem right. The car either needs no ground effects or something more pronounced.
Tailights - belong on a Mitzobishee. The Monaro ones or something different would look better.
Rear wheel wells. Major design flaw, but all is not lost. There is adequate clearance behind them in which a competent body man could enlarge the wheel well alone or enlarge while adding flares.
This brings me to point #2 above.
A functional Ram Air hood, new fascia, ground effects, spoiler or delete, wheels and work to the rear wheel well would make this a whole different car. I honestly think the car would look best without any ground effects have duel outlet chrome splitter exhaust and 1" to 2" fender flares. This would give it a more agressive stance and allow for some 10" to 11" wide rims. Now who wouldn't want those.:D I figure this could be done for under $5,000.
These are the summation of my opinon after seeing the car up close. Why do I reccomend a buy? First and foremost. It has the LS1.
Next, if a guy does not mind the conservitive looks, I see no reason not to buy the car. You would have to go up a price level to reach a competetor and I quite frankly don't see the value in doing that.
If you prefer the more agressive look, but are turned off by the factory offering, I would reccomend buying the car and spending the $5,000. You may ask, why the hell would I buy a #$33k car and put another $5k into it? The answer to this is simple. This is a $40,000 car in my opinion. I believe that the only reason GM has can price it for $33,000 is that they are building it with excess manufacturing capacity and have not loaded the car with some of the costs in the Monaro. If I am not mistaken I believe I have heard the Monaro goes for over $40k US and doesn't differ that much in content.
The other fact is we do not know how the car will do in the marketplace. After 2006 there may not be another one which would make the 04 to 06 a real collector. If sales are low on the 04 to 06 or this piss poor economy continues downward you never know what will be brought to market. Word is there is a platform in development that would allow a new gto to be built in 07 and Gm seems to be getting a better understanding on using excess capacity to build limited edition cars. My guess that even if it does happen in 07 or beyond the car will be considerably more expensive and you run the risk of having your constitutional rights violated if OBDIII is implemented by then.
Finally you never know what will happen to Lutz. This car or what may be coming down in the future would not exist without his influence.
A couple of final points. I have not driven one (may test drive one out of curiostity if the dealer will let me) so I cannot speak to the performance. It appears to be a mid high 13 second car depending on the tranny. This should be adquate for most drivers, but if not, we all know the aftermarket has the goods the LS1 it as fast as you want.
Even though I have been labeled a "hater" this has never been the case. I have always stated that I did not like the conservitve design and do not agree with using the gto name (that is a hole nother subject).
Would I buy one? No for a couple of reasons.
#1 I would want an automatic and there is nothing more offensive to me than the gas guzzler tax.
#2 I prefer a more agressive car. I seriosly doubt any car company will ever come out with anything close to the WS6 Ram Air Trans Am in this departmetn. I think the gto would be a much better car with the exterior changes I listed above, but that would put the cost close to $40k. As I said before, I think this is a $40k car but I will never spend that much money for a car.
So there you have it.. Feeback? Sorry so long, but I tried to keep it short
:thinking:
#1. You are the type of person who likes a conservitive looking car. OR
#2 You have $5,000 to spend on it.
I have seen the car in magazines, on TV and at a car show from about 25 feet away. Tonight I ran into one at a dealer. Here are my impressions.
The dealer was closed and had some gto's on the lot. The cars were sitting under a very bright light so it was easy to get a good look at them. Here we go. Lets start inside.
I am very impressed with the quality of the interior. The layout, ergonomics and features look dead on. Derf?
The +'s.
Seats - The look to be some of the best seats I have seen in a sports coupe. The leather looks a little better than the F-body, but I am skepticle about the wear. (maybe some aussies can confir). The gto stitching is a nice touch. I like the colored guages and the colored seats. It is obvious this is not an GM car by some of the different features such as telescoping steering wheel, bright trim group and (I have heard no one mention this) rear a/c ducts. :cool: Oh yea, the appeared quality. Most gm interiors are crap.
The seat position seems better (higher) than the F-body, so I would assume it is easier to drive around town in.
The -'s. There are only 2 things I saw that I did not like. The steering wheel is butt ugly and the guages appear to be tilted upwards like a foreing car. I despise that and is on of the features I did not like about the 64. But not sitting directly in the car it may not be too bad (just one of my pet peaves, like the tach must be on the left)
The guages are not complete, but I personally would pull the blaupuknt, put in an aftermarket deck and aftermarket guages in its place. Or you could add the HSV dash pod (if avalible) and put oil pressure/volt guages in it.
Overall I would rate the interior a 8 out of 10 and would hope that GM benchmarks off of the appeared quaility,ergonomic function of it. I would be very suprised if the car had the typical GM factory installed squeeks and rattles. The car has an interior of a $40,000 car. More on that later.
Exterior.
My first observation was kind of a shock. This car is very small on the outside. It does not look much larger than a Grand Am.:confused: I don't see how this car weighs so much. Maybe they designed it to resist a collison with a Sherman Tank:eek: But for the small exterior it seems to have a roomy interior:dunno: It would seem logical to me that the car would feel smaller driving also than an F-body. Again making better for driving around town.
Hoodline. I really don't like the exposed wipers and black plastic pods:confused: I really don't understand why automakers cannot recess the wipers under the hood like they used too. My T/A and Grand Prix are the same way. Of course with the waterbased model paint they used on the wiper arms and the cheap black exposed plastic you wind up with dull faded peelig wiper arms and broken down whiteish plastic..
Syling. Very conservitive. When I first saw it on the lot I was not sure if it was a Grand Prix or GTO. I was about 60 yards away so this impression was really just based upon the outside fog lights, grill position and flat hoodline. Once I got closer it became apparent which car it was in a subtile way. I really think that on the street this is how the car will be seen coming up on you. From a distance it will look like a prix, but as it gets closer you will see otherwise.
-'s
Front Facia is terrible, but this is not a reflection so much on the gto as Pontiac is carrying this theme across its product line. The grills are way to large and have no recess. The grand prix, solstace, g6 and bonneville all have the same. I guess it is the new Pontiac look? I don't really like it at all.
Rear spoiler. Someone take the guy who designed that thing out to the woodshed please.
Wheels - I really don't like them much, but it sounds like a lot of guys are going to replace them.
Ground effects - side and rear. They don't seem right. The car either needs no ground effects or something more pronounced.
Tailights - belong on a Mitzobishee. The Monaro ones or something different would look better.
Rear wheel wells. Major design flaw, but all is not lost. There is adequate clearance behind them in which a competent body man could enlarge the wheel well alone or enlarge while adding flares.
This brings me to point #2 above.
A functional Ram Air hood, new fascia, ground effects, spoiler or delete, wheels and work to the rear wheel well would make this a whole different car. I honestly think the car would look best without any ground effects have duel outlet chrome splitter exhaust and 1" to 2" fender flares. This would give it a more agressive stance and allow for some 10" to 11" wide rims. Now who wouldn't want those.:D I figure this could be done for under $5,000.
These are the summation of my opinon after seeing the car up close. Why do I reccomend a buy? First and foremost. It has the LS1.
Next, if a guy does not mind the conservitive looks, I see no reason not to buy the car. You would have to go up a price level to reach a competetor and I quite frankly don't see the value in doing that.
If you prefer the more agressive look, but are turned off by the factory offering, I would reccomend buying the car and spending the $5,000. You may ask, why the hell would I buy a #$33k car and put another $5k into it? The answer to this is simple. This is a $40,000 car in my opinion. I believe that the only reason GM has can price it for $33,000 is that they are building it with excess manufacturing capacity and have not loaded the car with some of the costs in the Monaro. If I am not mistaken I believe I have heard the Monaro goes for over $40k US and doesn't differ that much in content.
The other fact is we do not know how the car will do in the marketplace. After 2006 there may not be another one which would make the 04 to 06 a real collector. If sales are low on the 04 to 06 or this piss poor economy continues downward you never know what will be brought to market. Word is there is a platform in development that would allow a new gto to be built in 07 and Gm seems to be getting a better understanding on using excess capacity to build limited edition cars. My guess that even if it does happen in 07 or beyond the car will be considerably more expensive and you run the risk of having your constitutional rights violated if OBDIII is implemented by then.
Finally you never know what will happen to Lutz. This car or what may be coming down in the future would not exist without his influence.
A couple of final points. I have not driven one (may test drive one out of curiostity if the dealer will let me) so I cannot speak to the performance. It appears to be a mid high 13 second car depending on the tranny. This should be adquate for most drivers, but if not, we all know the aftermarket has the goods the LS1 it as fast as you want.
Even though I have been labeled a "hater" this has never been the case. I have always stated that I did not like the conservitve design and do not agree with using the gto name (that is a hole nother subject).
Would I buy one? No for a couple of reasons.
#1 I would want an automatic and there is nothing more offensive to me than the gas guzzler tax.
#2 I prefer a more agressive car. I seriosly doubt any car company will ever come out with anything close to the WS6 Ram Air Trans Am in this departmetn. I think the gto would be a much better car with the exterior changes I listed above, but that would put the cost close to $40k. As I said before, I think this is a $40k car but I will never spend that much money for a car.
So there you have it.. Feeback? Sorry so long, but I tried to keep it short
:thinking: